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okay

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and then the other thing i have you do

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is um just uh we also got a verbal

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release and just say yes you know you're

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being filmed for color me obsessed and

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you're

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fine with the footage being used in the

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film okay so

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which part would you like me to do first

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that makes no difference

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my name is bill mclesley and my title

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i've gone with professional title of tgw

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gtd which means the guy who gets things

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done

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and that's been my title for 15 years

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so but don't use just use the initials

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and people will be confused by that

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um i i realized that i'm being

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uh photographed recorded and videotaped

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for the film calling me obsessed

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excellent and you're cool with that i'm

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very cool with that yes very cool with

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that

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okay um

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why the replacements why the

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replacements

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uh

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uh i'll give you the back story um i

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lived about three blocks from a local

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record store in minneapolis called

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orfolk djokovis

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and i during high school

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uh would visit there regularly maybe

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seven nine times a week to see what was

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coming in on the

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used pile uh and i uh met a gentleman

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named peter jesperson who was

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manager of the store and uh was a big

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influence on what i would

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select you know if i pulled up a bunch

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of albums and he was

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totaling them up and i could see the

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grimace on his face he i might

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well i was just thinking about that when

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i pull it back out of the pile

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um anyway so peter and i became known to

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each other over the period of time that

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i was going to the record store a few

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years

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and i uh i got a call one night

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from a music club in town called duffy's

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and duffy's some i honestly remember the

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person was asked me if i could come down

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and do sound

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for a band that was playing that night

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and i said sure yeah no problem i'll

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come down

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i made my way down there and i believe i

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ended up taking the bus

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to get to the facility because i was 18

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but didn't own a car

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went down to the facility and i saw

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peter and i'm like hi peter

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and he's like great i'll guide you

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through this and

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he guided me through the first show i

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did with the replacements

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which was from an 18 year old's

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perspective i had no idea who this band

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was

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i connected the name of paul westerberg

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with a classmate mary

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westerberg uh only after

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um didn't realize they were related knew

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peter of course

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um and we did a show you know it was a

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packed house

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and what uh year was this this was

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this would have to have been 1983

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or four it would have to be it was it

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would have been

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spring uh let it be yeah let it be just

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about to be released

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okay um and

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i you know i'm like this is great um of

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course there was

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much hura about the success of the show

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and i'm

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still kind of without a clue as to what

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this means and who this who these people

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already are

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let me just ask for questions could this

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have been

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um we have a lot of duffy's stories

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and um and i love the idea that this is

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the potentially you know this is the

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potentially true story of the

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replacements

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right um and none of the duffy's stories

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even come close to matching

101
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of course not um which is kind of funny

102
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um they're just sort of what i'm

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enjoying in this the

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the rasheman kind of thing but uh by any

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chance you know if this

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was that big friday night gig there was

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free admission

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but and it was just like packed well it

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was packed

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yeah um do i recall that it was friday

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or free mission

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friday night uh strong

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possibility because i was asked on the

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way home that night i mean

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of course now it's after bus time so i'm

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trying to figure out how i'm going to

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get from one side of minneapolis the

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other side of minneapolis

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and didn't really as much as i

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hitchhiked at that time i didn't think

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it'd be wise to hitchhike at that time

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um so i got a ride from somebody and on

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the ride i got asked by peter hey are

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you free

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tomorrow now whether it was tomorrow or

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the next day i'm not real clear but it

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was like yeah

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i'm free to go and he's like okay we'll

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pick you up we're going to madison

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and it kind of it wasn't any kind of

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official we're going to pick you up to

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do this

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it was more of we're just going to you

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know

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we're just going to invite you along and

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use your talents or skills

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for the foreseeable future or for this

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at least this weekend

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yeah maybe the next weekend and when

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i think when it was found out that i

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didn't actually drink and they knew i

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could drive it was like

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there's the golden boy we're going to

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pick that guy up because

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we don't have to worry about it and

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everybody else can do what they want to

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do

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so so it's a very strong possibility it

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was that particular show

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i do recall it being incredibly packed

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and it wasn't close to the course of the

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university campus

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was that the first time you had ever

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heard of no

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then the mix i mean i mean why did they

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ask you i mean well

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so my background to that is that i

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didn't do a lot of mixing and did a lot

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of theater work

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um prior to that i worked with several

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bands in my high school and of course

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we tried to do our own things and

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minneapolis at that time had a pretty

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reasonable

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a decent indie scene and you know we

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played whatever gigs we could play and

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you know

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maybe i would make 100 bucks a week

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maybe i'd make 100 bucks a month it was

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no sure thing and it was of course

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you know you get to play once or twice a

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month so there's not enough

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turnover in actual gigs to make money

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right

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so um so yeah i was asked to come along

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so i drove to madison and we did

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something on river street i don't even

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know the name of the club

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and then by the way we're going to cubby

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bear in chicago can you come along it's

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like yeah sure no problem and i

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you know whether my skills were good or

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bad

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uh i seem to hit a click with

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the actual the actual band got

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you know they like the results the

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musicians like the results the

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the the fans like the results i enjoyed

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the energy of the environment um still

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not really realizing

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you know that this is the big band or

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one of the big bands from minneapolis

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you know the rivalry between husky and

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the replacements was pretty strong

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and um you know i

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i had a great time in that first few

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days but i didn't really realize that

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this was going to become a long term

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thing it was once again kind of seated

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the pants very

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very seated the pants so

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what happened next um

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well it what happened next we got back

204
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from

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our my first weekend gig with them uh

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and i

207
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asked peter about you know the

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formalities of this and you know the per

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diem

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particular per diem of the you know the

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the the tour at the time

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or the the events of the time i think it

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was

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15 a day and that was for

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show days of course which means if there

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were four shows a week i was making 60

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bucks a week

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and that's not great it's not

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bad but it would mean that i would need

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to do something other than that

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um and i did i kind of just did other

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bands around town and

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developed my my name around town

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um we did

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several longer event tours or longer

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stints

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and once again i i was

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unaware really unaware of the the

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magnitude

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of the press the magnitude of the review

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the magnitude of

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the critical audience saying you know

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this is something to be watching

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right and it didn't really occur to me

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that you know there would be somebody in

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the audience that would be

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thinking about signing these guys to a

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deal you know i wasn't

239
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warned or informed i can recall one

240
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occasion in new york city when they

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thought that there was going to be

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somebody in the audience that would be

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interested in was that the cbg music uh

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it was not the cbtv show it was another

245
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location

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do not know the name of the particular

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place um the cd-tv shows were

248
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did a few of them there and alex chilton

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did one

250
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opening there and that was you know

251
00:09:00,080 --> 00:09:01,920
those shows were much more relaxed there

252
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was much more

253
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uh interaction with the audience and i

254
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think the intimacy of the actual

255
00:09:06,640 --> 00:09:08,640
environment was much more attractive

256
00:09:08,640 --> 00:09:10,800
to the band and to into the audience

257
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also

258
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um it was a

259
00:09:15,519 --> 00:09:18,959
i don't want to overstate the the

260
00:09:18,959 --> 00:09:22,720
the simplicity of the of the mind that i

261
00:09:22,720 --> 00:09:23,680
had at that time

262
00:09:23,680 --> 00:09:26,480
but i really did not think it was going

263
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to be

264
00:09:27,440 --> 00:09:30,560
something we'd be talking about today

265
00:09:30,560 --> 00:09:32,480
which is kind of i mean you know if i

266
00:09:32,480 --> 00:09:33,680
had taken a journal every day and i'd

267
00:09:33,680 --> 00:09:35,120
written something down every day and

268
00:09:35,120 --> 00:09:36,880
kind of said you know here's here's we

269
00:09:36,880 --> 00:09:38,560
ran into um

270
00:09:38,560 --> 00:09:40,959
you know you just watched johnny hooker

271
00:09:40,959 --> 00:09:42,880
open up and or just you know just saw

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00:09:42,880 --> 00:09:43,760
pete buck

273
00:09:43,760 --> 00:09:45,279
talking to paul backstage or whatever it

274
00:09:45,279 --> 00:09:46,800
might be

275
00:09:46,800 --> 00:09:48,800
you know now it means something but at

276
00:09:48,800 --> 00:09:50,959
that time i was

277
00:09:50,959 --> 00:09:54,399
too dumb to realize how cool it was

278
00:09:54,399 --> 00:09:57,040
when did well i mean okay so you're

279
00:09:57,040 --> 00:09:58,959
mixing this band for the first time

280
00:09:58,959 --> 00:10:00,800
first time you really your first

281
00:10:00,800 --> 00:10:02,480
exposure to them what did you think of

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the band

283
00:10:03,680 --> 00:10:06,880
what did i think of the band um well i

284
00:10:06,880 --> 00:10:08,640
didn't i

285
00:10:08,640 --> 00:10:11,600
after i told my my own network my

286
00:10:11,600 --> 00:10:13,360
friends at the time of who i was working

287
00:10:13,360 --> 00:10:15,440
with and what i was doing

288
00:10:15,440 --> 00:10:17,360
you know because well back up since i

289
00:10:17,360 --> 00:10:18,560
did not drink

290
00:10:18,560 --> 00:10:21,200
i did not do a lot of the social

291
00:10:21,200 --> 00:10:22,959
gathering at clubs i would only go to

292
00:10:22,959 --> 00:10:23,839
clubs to work

293
00:10:23,839 --> 00:10:27,360
yeah um so my friends who were going to

294
00:10:27,360 --> 00:10:28,880
social clubs going to clubs for the

295
00:10:28,880 --> 00:10:30,480
social aspect of it would tell me like

296
00:10:30,480 --> 00:10:32,079
oh my god you know i've heard

297
00:10:32,079 --> 00:10:34,079
that they're like the craziest band ever

298
00:10:34,079 --> 00:10:35,920
they get naked and they run around and

299
00:10:35,920 --> 00:10:37,519
they just play crazy covers and they

300
00:10:37,519 --> 00:10:39,120
don't play anything straight and

301
00:10:39,120 --> 00:10:41,839
what's it like and of course i hadn't

302
00:10:41,839 --> 00:10:43,600
quite seen that

303
00:10:43,600 --> 00:10:46,000
portions of that but you you can't you

304
00:10:46,000 --> 00:10:47,519
know those kinds of stories

305
00:10:47,519 --> 00:10:49,600
come from a single incident within a

306
00:10:49,600 --> 00:10:51,839
spectrum of days or weeks or months

307
00:10:51,839 --> 00:10:56,640
um so i was watching for those things

308
00:10:56,640 --> 00:10:58,160
and kind of almost expected those things

309
00:10:58,160 --> 00:11:00,000
to occur when they did occur

310
00:11:00,000 --> 00:11:03,680
it was oh okay so bob's wearing a tutu

311
00:11:03,680 --> 00:11:06,800
cool that's what i expected okay you

312
00:11:06,800 --> 00:11:09,519
know the the inside component of that is

313
00:11:09,519 --> 00:11:13,200
did you know off stage

314
00:11:13,200 --> 00:11:16,720
off performance there was

315
00:11:16,720 --> 00:11:18,560
that was where to me the real insight

316
00:11:18,560 --> 00:11:20,800
and the real observations came in

317
00:11:20,800 --> 00:11:22,079
because watching him on stage was

318
00:11:22,079 --> 00:11:24,079
something that the audience also saw and

319
00:11:24,079 --> 00:11:27,040
it was about paul and the band

320
00:11:27,040 --> 00:11:28,800
performing what they wanted to perform

321
00:11:28,800 --> 00:11:29,519
at the time

322
00:11:29,519 --> 00:11:31,440
not i'm gonna get this song out and i'm

323
00:11:31,440 --> 00:11:32,800
gonna put this emotion to the song it's

324
00:11:32,800 --> 00:11:34,399
like i'm just gonna have fun and if i'm

325
00:11:34,399 --> 00:11:35,279
pissed off

326
00:11:35,279 --> 00:11:36,480
i'm gonna share my anger with the

327
00:11:36,480 --> 00:11:38,880
audience or if i'm having a fun time

328
00:11:38,880 --> 00:11:40,240
i'm just gonna have fun and i don't

329
00:11:40,240 --> 00:11:43,279
really care and that i don't really care

330
00:11:43,279 --> 00:11:46,560
is the mantra it is the

331
00:11:46,560 --> 00:11:48,640
i don't really care we don't really care

332
00:11:48,640 --> 00:11:50,000
what you guys think

333
00:11:50,000 --> 00:11:52,399
we're having fun we're not here to

334
00:11:52,399 --> 00:11:53,360
entertain you

335
00:11:53,360 --> 00:11:55,360
this isn't a spectacle even though it

336
00:11:55,360 --> 00:11:56,399
may be a spectacle

337
00:11:56,399 --> 00:11:58,000
it isn't about being a spectacle it's

338
00:11:58,000 --> 00:11:59,920
about us having a good time

339
00:11:59,920 --> 00:12:01,519
getting through the night making some

340
00:12:01,519 --> 00:12:04,240
money so i can make tomorrow's rent or i

341
00:12:04,240 --> 00:12:05,200
can

342
00:12:05,200 --> 00:12:08,160
get another whatever hit whatever it

343
00:12:08,160 --> 00:12:08,720
might be

344
00:12:08,720 --> 00:12:11,839
yeah um

345
00:12:12,399 --> 00:12:13,360
i don't know if that answers the

346
00:12:13,360 --> 00:12:14,959
question directly or not and i may have

347
00:12:14,959 --> 00:12:17,040
gone way off topic

348
00:12:17,040 --> 00:12:19,600
um so to give you a little more

349
00:12:19,600 --> 00:12:20,800
background about myself

350
00:12:20,800 --> 00:12:24,639
i lived with a during high school i

351
00:12:24,639 --> 00:12:25,519
lived with

352
00:12:25,519 --> 00:12:27,760
a friend of mine whose parents had an

353
00:12:27,760 --> 00:12:28,880
opera company

354
00:12:28,880 --> 00:12:31,519
which is kind of an interesting twist in

355
00:12:31,519 --> 00:12:32,720
in the world

356
00:12:32,720 --> 00:12:34,959
um they did a very light opera a lot of

357
00:12:34,959 --> 00:12:36,000
gilbert and sullivan

358
00:12:36,000 --> 00:12:38,720
and they the facility they actually did

359
00:12:38,720 --> 00:12:39,519
their opera in

360
00:12:39,519 --> 00:12:40,560
they decided they would open a

361
00:12:40,560 --> 00:12:43,200
non-alcoholic club called the bataclan

362
00:12:43,200 --> 00:12:45,200
the bataclan was open for a very short

363
00:12:45,200 --> 00:12:46,240
period of time

364
00:12:46,240 --> 00:12:51,200
and they had as one of their musical

365
00:12:51,200 --> 00:12:54,320
guests was a band called the impediments

366
00:12:54,320 --> 00:12:56,560
and the impediments were put off stage

367
00:12:56,560 --> 00:12:58,160
before they even got on because they

368
00:12:58,160 --> 00:13:00,240
brought alcohol into a non-alcoholic

369
00:13:00,240 --> 00:13:00,959
club

370
00:13:00,959 --> 00:13:02,720
and i was actually doing lights for that

371
00:13:02,720 --> 00:13:04,720
particular event and we ended up not

372
00:13:04,720 --> 00:13:06,399
having a show that night

373
00:13:06,399 --> 00:13:09,600
which is the quote-unquote first

374
00:13:09,600 --> 00:13:11,440
replacement show before they actually

375
00:13:11,440 --> 00:13:13,519
became the replacement wow

376
00:13:13,519 --> 00:13:15,360
which is a small world and it was not

377
00:13:15,360 --> 00:13:17,040
that i was there because

378
00:13:17,040 --> 00:13:18,399
i got into the relations because of that

379
00:13:18,399 --> 00:13:20,240
it was like completely separate events

380
00:13:20,240 --> 00:13:24,160
that was on 79 or 81 or

381
00:13:24,160 --> 00:13:28,160
somewhere in there so this is prior to

382
00:13:28,160 --> 00:13:30,160
sorry ma or don't ask or any other any

383
00:13:30,160 --> 00:13:32,240
anything and

384
00:13:32,240 --> 00:13:35,440
the so going through my theatrical

385
00:13:35,440 --> 00:13:36,720
career i've got a level of

386
00:13:36,720 --> 00:13:38,880
professionalism that i've

387
00:13:38,880 --> 00:13:42,079
maintained and i'm

388
00:13:42,079 --> 00:13:44,560
going on going on tour with this band

389
00:13:44,560 --> 00:13:45,839
thinking okay we're going it's going to

390
00:13:45,839 --> 00:13:47,199
be this and i've you know i've heard

391
00:13:47,199 --> 00:13:48,480
about opera tours and i've heard about

392
00:13:48,480 --> 00:13:49,760
rock tours and i've heard about

393
00:13:49,760 --> 00:13:51,199
whatever kind of tours and i'm thinking

394
00:13:51,199 --> 00:13:52,560
it's going to be something like this and

395
00:13:52,560 --> 00:13:53,839
it has turned out to be

396
00:13:53,839 --> 00:13:56,399
nothing like that it was much more a

397
00:13:56,399 --> 00:13:58,079
family going on a road trip or a camping

398
00:13:58,079 --> 00:13:58,560
trip

399
00:13:58,560 --> 00:14:01,120
so i mean and that's you know i don't

400
00:14:01,120 --> 00:14:02,639
know if that gives you any little bit of

401
00:14:02,639 --> 00:14:05,199
insight but i'm thinking about it being

402
00:14:05,199 --> 00:14:06,800
you know i'm thinking about i'm not

403
00:14:06,800 --> 00:14:08,000
really thinking about my career or what

404
00:14:08,000 --> 00:14:09,120
it's going to be like in the future i'm

405
00:14:09,120 --> 00:14:10,160
thinking about you know great we're

406
00:14:10,160 --> 00:14:11,440
going to go to this place i'm not going

407
00:14:11,440 --> 00:14:12,480
to look around the town i've ever been

408
00:14:12,480 --> 00:14:14,079
there before cool

409
00:14:14,079 --> 00:14:15,360
i hope they have pineapple juice at the

410
00:14:15,360 --> 00:14:17,920
bar really simple

411
00:14:17,920 --> 00:14:21,199
very narrow focus very short term event

412
00:14:21,199 --> 00:14:22,320
horizon

413
00:14:22,320 --> 00:14:23,519
can we make it through the night where

414
00:14:23,519 --> 00:14:25,279
do we get guitar strings do i have no

415
00:14:25,279 --> 00:14:26,320
guitar picks

416
00:14:26,320 --> 00:14:28,800
that kind of stuff but i'm also thinking

417
00:14:28,800 --> 00:14:30,000
about okay how do i make this

418
00:14:30,000 --> 00:14:31,440
more professional when if the band wants

419
00:14:31,440 --> 00:14:33,760
to be almost the opposite

420
00:14:33,760 --> 00:14:35,680
so nothing wants to be but they just are

421
00:14:35,680 --> 00:14:38,880
yeah to take it from someone who

422
00:14:38,880 --> 00:14:41,279
wouldn't know what your job entails what

423
00:14:41,279 --> 00:14:43,040
did you what

424
00:14:43,040 --> 00:14:46,160
when you worked with bands subsequently

425
00:14:46,160 --> 00:14:47,199
in the future

426
00:14:47,199 --> 00:14:50,880
uh and you know the way what would

427
00:14:50,880 --> 00:14:52,240
what's the professional way that you

428
00:14:52,240 --> 00:14:54,399
expected it to happen and tell us how

429
00:14:54,399 --> 00:14:58,959
it differed well

430
00:14:58,959 --> 00:15:00,800
um i remember you talking to us on the

431
00:15:00,800 --> 00:15:02,240
phone right okay so

432
00:15:02,240 --> 00:15:05,120
an example of

433
00:15:05,839 --> 00:15:08,240
an example of a level of professionalism

434
00:15:08,240 --> 00:15:09,040
versus a

435
00:15:09,040 --> 00:15:10,560
a level of running by the seat of your

436
00:15:10,560 --> 00:15:12,800
pants would be if

437
00:15:12,800 --> 00:15:14,959
i'm going into a facility let's just say

438
00:15:14,959 --> 00:15:16,079
that we're gonna go do

439
00:15:16,079 --> 00:15:17,839
an acoustic performance and i'm gonna

440
00:15:17,839 --> 00:15:19,680
run sound and you're gonna sit down with

441
00:15:19,680 --> 00:15:21,360
your guitar a microphone for your guitar

442
00:15:21,360 --> 00:15:23,040
microphone for your vocal and you're

443
00:15:23,040 --> 00:15:23,600
gonna play

444
00:15:23,600 --> 00:15:25,040
12 songs or whatever it might be or

445
00:15:25,040 --> 00:15:27,920
three songs you're going to go in

446
00:15:27,920 --> 00:15:29,759
hopefully having some experience of the

447
00:15:29,759 --> 00:15:31,360
environment knowing how loud you need to

448
00:15:31,360 --> 00:15:31,759
be

449
00:15:31,759 --> 00:15:33,839
maybe knowing if you can hear yourself

450
00:15:33,839 --> 00:15:34,959
when you're strumming if it's going to

451
00:15:34,959 --> 00:15:36,160
be booming on the stage whatever it

452
00:15:36,160 --> 00:15:37,120
might be

453
00:15:37,120 --> 00:15:38,480
and we would actually go in and do a

454
00:15:38,480 --> 00:15:40,000
quote-unquote sound check where i would

455
00:15:40,000 --> 00:15:41,600
be able to hear stuff and go okay well i

456
00:15:41,600 --> 00:15:42,639
know when there's going to be

457
00:15:42,639 --> 00:15:44,320
250 people in here it's going to sound a

458
00:15:44,320 --> 00:15:46,399
different way but i think i've got a

459
00:15:46,399 --> 00:15:48,000
good grasp of

460
00:15:48,000 --> 00:15:49,839
what it is that i need to do in order to

461
00:15:49,839 --> 00:15:51,600
make it so that from

462
00:15:51,600 --> 00:15:54,639
first note to last note it's

463
00:15:54,639 --> 00:15:57,040
a good performance because i'm thinking

464
00:15:57,040 --> 00:15:58,720
about performance

465
00:15:58,720 --> 00:16:02,560
and that

466
00:16:02,639 --> 00:16:04,560
for no reason other than we couldn't get

467
00:16:04,560 --> 00:16:06,000
to the facility in time or

468
00:16:06,000 --> 00:16:08,480
we just didn't want to take the time to

469
00:16:08,480 --> 00:16:09,759
do a sound check

470
00:16:09,759 --> 00:16:13,040
sound checks were not done which is an

471
00:16:13,040 --> 00:16:14,639
interesting perspective

472
00:16:14,639 --> 00:16:17,199
from the professional's perspective he's

473
00:16:17,199 --> 00:16:17,920
like

474
00:16:17,920 --> 00:16:19,759
yeah you know i don't really want to

475
00:16:19,759 --> 00:16:21,680
look bad so i want to make i want to get

476
00:16:21,680 --> 00:16:23,360
a chance to try it out to see what

477
00:16:23,360 --> 00:16:25,279
happens

478
00:16:25,279 --> 00:16:27,680
the other side of that is you know it's

479
00:16:27,680 --> 00:16:29,519
performance art you get in there

480
00:16:29,519 --> 00:16:31,279
swim throw you off the boat in the

481
00:16:31,279 --> 00:16:32,800
middle of the lake swim to shore you'll

482
00:16:32,800 --> 00:16:34,240
figure it out if you don't

483
00:16:34,240 --> 00:16:37,600
you'll drown well i'm not going to die

484
00:16:37,600 --> 00:16:39,279
i might be embarrassed but at the same

485
00:16:39,279 --> 00:16:40,560
time i'm 18 years old and i don't really

486
00:16:40,560 --> 00:16:41,600
care

487
00:16:41,600 --> 00:16:44,800
so the we're having fun

488
00:16:44,800 --> 00:16:47,199
we don't care we're doing it for

489
00:16:47,199 --> 00:16:47,920
ourselves

490
00:16:47,920 --> 00:16:51,040
was very infectious didn't ruin me

491
00:16:51,040 --> 00:16:53,600
well i don't think but but at the same

492
00:16:53,600 --> 00:16:55,199
time it was really kind of like

493
00:16:55,199 --> 00:16:56,399
you know we don't need to do a sound

494
00:16:56,399 --> 00:16:57,600
check we know what we're going to do and

495
00:16:57,600 --> 00:16:58,880
it's like you know what

496
00:16:58,880 --> 00:17:00,880
i'm fine with that if this first if you

497
00:17:00,880 --> 00:17:02,240
don't care about the first song

498
00:17:02,240 --> 00:17:06,319
coming off with vocals i'm cool yeah

499
00:17:06,319 --> 00:17:08,079
no did they ever do any soundtracks i

500
00:17:08,079 --> 00:17:09,679
mean even bigger places

501
00:17:09,679 --> 00:17:11,919
some places there were sound checks done

502
00:17:11,919 --> 00:17:13,600
only because it was more of let's get up

503
00:17:13,600 --> 00:17:14,240
and see if we're

504
00:17:14,240 --> 00:17:16,720
you know how we're doing how we're doing

505
00:17:16,720 --> 00:17:18,319
it's not about we're going to give

506
00:17:18,319 --> 00:17:20,720
you the opportunity to actually test out

507
00:17:20,720 --> 00:17:22,160
the equipment it's more about i want to

508
00:17:22,160 --> 00:17:23,439
work on something or

509
00:17:23,439 --> 00:17:25,839
we're going to figure out if this works

510
00:17:25,839 --> 00:17:26,720
because we're going to be so much

511
00:17:26,720 --> 00:17:28,559
further apart

512
00:17:28,559 --> 00:17:30,559
that's you know playing the metro is a

513
00:17:30,559 --> 00:17:32,720
big stage in boston and it has

514
00:17:32,720 --> 00:17:35,440
you know does it fit our and you know

515
00:17:35,440 --> 00:17:35,919
we're

516
00:17:35,919 --> 00:17:37,520
typically tight we kind of want to be

517
00:17:37,520 --> 00:17:39,760
together i mean

518
00:17:39,760 --> 00:17:41,919
having worked around bands and seen

519
00:17:41,919 --> 00:17:44,320
bands for

520
00:17:44,320 --> 00:17:47,039
many many many decades it seems now uh i

521
00:17:47,039 --> 00:17:48,400
i've found that there are some bands

522
00:17:48,400 --> 00:17:49,280
that'll play a club

523
00:17:49,280 --> 00:17:50,799
and they have no idea how to control

524
00:17:50,799 --> 00:17:52,640
their stage volume that which is in a

525
00:17:52,640 --> 00:17:53,360
smaller room

526
00:17:53,360 --> 00:17:55,440
is usually the hardest thing you know it

527
00:17:55,440 --> 00:17:56,960
seems that like people are like it's

528
00:17:56,960 --> 00:17:58,480
like there's a volume war going on

529
00:17:58,480 --> 00:18:00,000
between bass drums or two guitar

530
00:18:00,000 --> 00:18:02,640
players or what you know uh i take it

531
00:18:02,640 --> 00:18:03,280
that

532
00:18:03,280 --> 00:18:04,799
these guys probably didn't worry too

533
00:18:04,799 --> 00:18:07,280
much about their stage volume

534
00:18:07,280 --> 00:18:10,000
no i'm thinking about smaller clocks no

535
00:18:10,000 --> 00:18:10,320
no

536
00:18:10,320 --> 00:18:14,400
but at the same time i mean

537
00:18:14,400 --> 00:18:16,720
part of the reason that that wouldn't

538
00:18:16,720 --> 00:18:18,480
necessarily matter is because it was a

539
00:18:18,480 --> 00:18:19,840
wall to wall

540
00:18:19,840 --> 00:18:22,559
you know playing maxwell's mm-hmm the

541
00:18:22,559 --> 00:18:24,480
room is

542
00:18:24,480 --> 00:18:26,799
not very big right yeah i mean you know

543
00:18:26,799 --> 00:18:28,240
there's a there's an entrance

544
00:18:28,240 --> 00:18:29,679
by the stage it lets you get to the rest

545
00:18:29,679 --> 00:18:30,799
of the space and then it's basically

546
00:18:30,799 --> 00:18:32,559
this narrow teeny little room and it's

547
00:18:32,559 --> 00:18:34,240
like wall-to-wall people so whatever

548
00:18:34,240 --> 00:18:36,080
stage volume was being absorbed right at

549
00:18:36,080 --> 00:18:36,640
the front

550
00:18:36,640 --> 00:18:38,559
right and if i could get vocals over the

551
00:18:38,559 --> 00:18:40,320
top of that i was winning

552
00:18:40,320 --> 00:18:43,120
okay you know that well as much as there

553
00:18:43,120 --> 00:18:44,559
was a desire to have some special

554
00:18:44,559 --> 00:18:45,120
effects

555
00:18:45,120 --> 00:18:47,120
and echoes and certain things on certain

556
00:18:47,120 --> 00:18:49,360
songs

557
00:18:49,360 --> 00:18:52,000
you know it was we were i was very lucky

558
00:18:52,000 --> 00:18:52,559
to

559
00:18:52,559 --> 00:18:55,520
be in the position of beginning a mix

560
00:18:55,520 --> 00:18:56,480
that

561
00:18:56,480 --> 00:18:59,280
was attractive to a lot of people and i

562
00:18:59,280 --> 00:19:00,400
was lucky to basically

563
00:19:00,400 --> 00:19:03,039
you know beat down the stage volume so

564
00:19:03,039 --> 00:19:04,880
now you you said a lot of the insight

565
00:19:04,880 --> 00:19:07,360
to the band came backstage of course

566
00:19:07,360 --> 00:19:09,440
yeah it's worth the majority of time yes

567
00:19:09,440 --> 00:19:13,039
help tell us tell us and again i'm not

568
00:19:13,039 --> 00:19:14,080
looking at as i've said to you

569
00:19:14,080 --> 00:19:15,280
i'm not looking for i don't i don't care

570
00:19:15,280 --> 00:19:16,559
who did drugs i don't care who did stuff

571
00:19:16,559 --> 00:19:17,679
like that because it's like they're rock

572
00:19:17,679 --> 00:19:18,559
and roll man they're supposed to do

573
00:19:18,559 --> 00:19:19,280
drugs it's like

574
00:19:19,280 --> 00:19:20,400
you know if you're gonna unless you can

575
00:19:20,400 --> 00:19:21,760
tell me today where they actually like

576
00:19:21,760 --> 00:19:22,720
sat in the van and

577
00:19:22,720 --> 00:19:24,480
drank tea and read bible quotes then i

578
00:19:24,480 --> 00:19:26,160
want to know that but

579
00:19:26,160 --> 00:19:27,760
but i want to know more about who did

580
00:19:27,760 --> 00:19:29,120
these guys listen to i mean what were

581
00:19:29,120 --> 00:19:30,559
they like what did they joke about what

582
00:19:30,559 --> 00:19:32,240
was that was a running gag that went

583
00:19:32,240 --> 00:19:32,640
with the

584
00:19:32,640 --> 00:19:35,679
you know with the band um the funny side

585
00:19:35,679 --> 00:19:37,919
i mean did they love a certain tv show i

586
00:19:37,919 --> 00:19:39,600
mean was there something

587
00:19:39,600 --> 00:19:41,919
some weird little insights in tv i don't

588
00:19:41,919 --> 00:19:43,120
remember tv being

589
00:19:43,120 --> 00:19:46,720
much of a i don't remember tv being much

590
00:19:46,720 --> 00:19:49,919
at all um who do we listen to who do we

591
00:19:49,919 --> 00:19:51,280
listen to

592
00:19:51,280 --> 00:19:54,960
uh lots of t-rex of course

593
00:19:54,960 --> 00:19:56,400
some robin hitchcock i was exposed to

594
00:19:56,400 --> 00:19:58,000
robin hitchcock i often dream of trains

595
00:19:58,000 --> 00:20:00,080
was played incessantly

596
00:20:00,080 --> 00:20:04,159
um yeah

597
00:20:04,159 --> 00:20:05,280
you know do we listen to a lot of

598
00:20:05,280 --> 00:20:08,080
classic elvis oh yeah really yeah

599
00:20:08,080 --> 00:20:10,640
wow yeah and a bunch of stuff of course

600
00:20:10,640 --> 00:20:11,280
that i would

601
00:20:11,280 --> 00:20:12,559
i wouldn't know you're talking presley

602
00:20:12,559 --> 00:20:14,480
you're not talking right yeah right

603
00:20:14,480 --> 00:20:17,520
yeah really listening to a lot of old

604
00:20:17,520 --> 00:20:18,840
blues and a lot of

605
00:20:18,840 --> 00:20:22,240
old old old er rock and roll at the time

606
00:20:22,240 --> 00:20:24,000
was that coming from jefferson

607
00:20:24,000 --> 00:20:26,080
i don't think so a lot of the selections

608
00:20:26,080 --> 00:20:27,600
were coming from paul

609
00:20:27,600 --> 00:20:31,120
and you know a pile a box of cassettes

610
00:20:31,120 --> 00:20:32,880
you know don't dare put anything in

611
00:20:32,880 --> 00:20:34,640
there that would you wanted to keep

612
00:20:34,640 --> 00:20:35,840
because if it was unlike

613
00:20:35,840 --> 00:20:38,400
it got thrown off the window so you know

614
00:20:38,400 --> 00:20:40,080
make sure that if you

615
00:20:40,080 --> 00:20:41,360
if you're putting something in there you

616
00:20:41,360 --> 00:20:44,880
don't care about it um

617
00:20:45,120 --> 00:20:48,240
yeah there was you know i was exposed

618
00:20:48,240 --> 00:20:51,360
to a lot of music that i

619
00:20:51,360 --> 00:20:54,240
did not know about and found later on in

620
00:20:54,240 --> 00:20:56,159
life to be i'm very appreciative of it i

621
00:20:56,159 --> 00:20:57,760
mean i've seen robin hitchcock

622
00:20:57,760 --> 00:21:01,120
17 times it's just like

623
00:21:01,120 --> 00:21:05,120
i'm so grateful um

624
00:21:05,360 --> 00:21:07,520
the

625
00:21:08,480 --> 00:21:12,000
uh the the dirty laundry stories i i'm

626
00:21:12,000 --> 00:21:13,520
not a dirty laundry kind of guy

627
00:21:13,520 --> 00:21:15,280
that's what i'm saying and i don't

628
00:21:15,280 --> 00:21:16,720
really care about who did drugs either

629
00:21:16,720 --> 00:21:18,400
that stuff doesn't matter to me

630
00:21:18,400 --> 00:21:23,120
what did surprise me was the

631
00:21:23,200 --> 00:21:27,520
the level of um

632
00:21:27,520 --> 00:21:31,039
the threshold of

633
00:21:31,039 --> 00:21:32,400
where i didn't realize that they were

634
00:21:32,400 --> 00:21:34,799
intoxicated but they were

635
00:21:34,799 --> 00:21:37,919
and watching them do you know i i

636
00:21:37,919 --> 00:21:38,559
watched

637
00:21:38,559 --> 00:21:41,440
two of them do 21 tequila poppers with a

638
00:21:41,440 --> 00:21:43,679
liter of 2 liter of 7 up in a bottle and

639
00:21:43,679 --> 00:21:44,000
i'm just

640
00:21:44,000 --> 00:21:46,320
like how can you guys you know how can

641
00:21:46,320 --> 00:21:48,000
you get up and walk

642
00:21:48,000 --> 00:21:49,679
down the hall into the van and get to

643
00:21:49,679 --> 00:21:51,280
the club and actually perform didn't ask

644
00:21:51,280 --> 00:21:52,720
those questions but now when i look back

645
00:21:52,720 --> 00:21:55,039
at it of course i'm like oh my god

646
00:21:55,039 --> 00:21:56,880
you know ten shots of tequila should

647
00:21:56,880 --> 00:21:58,320
kill somebody

648
00:21:58,320 --> 00:22:00,960
i remember jack revan who used to drink

649
00:22:00,960 --> 00:22:01,600
with them

650
00:22:01,600 --> 00:22:04,480
a lot said that he you know he's like i

651
00:22:04,480 --> 00:22:05,039
can hold

652
00:22:05,039 --> 00:22:07,280
down my beers but it's just like it was

653
00:22:07,280 --> 00:22:09,200
four or five to one

654
00:22:09,200 --> 00:22:12,480
with them yeah yeah yes um that was and

655
00:22:12,480 --> 00:22:13,760
that was a little bit of surprise to me

656
00:22:13,760 --> 00:22:14,880
i was like you know i've

657
00:22:14,880 --> 00:22:16,720
i'd heard that you know there's crazy

658
00:22:16,720 --> 00:22:18,400
stuff going on and you know in the rock

659
00:22:18,400 --> 00:22:20,159
and roll world and of course i expect to

660
00:22:20,159 --> 00:22:21,120
see some of it but

661
00:22:21,120 --> 00:22:22,720
when i actually kind of calculate it i'm

662
00:22:22,720 --> 00:22:24,799
just like wow and you're not talking big

663
00:22:24,799 --> 00:22:26,480
guys either i mean

664
00:22:26,480 --> 00:22:28,960
no no tommy were pretty damn skinny

665
00:22:28,960 --> 00:22:29,760
right

666
00:22:29,760 --> 00:22:32,000
chris wasn't big bob was the big bob was

667
00:22:32,000 --> 00:22:33,360
big but yeah i mean

668
00:22:33,360 --> 00:22:35,760
all of them were you know starving

669
00:22:35,760 --> 00:22:37,280
musicians as it were

670
00:22:37,280 --> 00:22:41,280
um oh wow

671
00:22:41,280 --> 00:22:45,679
um there's a horse walking by outside um

672
00:22:45,679 --> 00:22:47,919
the

673
00:22:49,280 --> 00:22:51,440
the only other thing is that you know

674
00:22:51,440 --> 00:22:53,280
once again this is like a family camping

675
00:22:53,280 --> 00:22:55,120
trip it's it's not a great analogy but

676
00:22:55,120 --> 00:22:56,320
it really is like that it's like you

677
00:22:56,320 --> 00:22:57,600
know if we don't get the shower for a

678
00:22:57,600 --> 00:22:59,280
few days that's just how it is

679
00:22:59,280 --> 00:23:03,039
when you're 18 it doesn't seem to matter

680
00:23:03,039 --> 00:23:04,799
you know nowadays it's a different thing

681
00:23:04,799 --> 00:23:06,640
for me but you know

682
00:23:06,640 --> 00:23:09,200
i don't think i saw bob take off his

683
00:23:09,200 --> 00:23:09,840
shoes

684
00:23:09,840 --> 00:23:12,080
for many days in a row he would sleep in

685
00:23:12,080 --> 00:23:13,520
bed with his shoes on

686
00:23:13,520 --> 00:23:15,919
he would well bob was an interesting

687
00:23:15,919 --> 00:23:17,600
character and i miss him dearly

688
00:23:17,600 --> 00:23:20,960
he did some strange stuff his

689
00:23:20,960 --> 00:23:22,480
personal body functions were no longer

690
00:23:22,480 --> 00:23:24,159
personal which was a very

691
00:23:24,159 --> 00:23:26,080
interesting observation but once again

692
00:23:26,080 --> 00:23:27,919
you know i'm i'm very young i'm like is

693
00:23:27,919 --> 00:23:29,679
this what it's supposed to be like

694
00:23:29,679 --> 00:23:30,960
i've seen opera and everybody's

695
00:23:30,960 --> 00:23:32,640
professional and i've seen the rock and

696
00:23:32,640 --> 00:23:34,080
roll world and it's completely the

697
00:23:34,080 --> 00:23:35,039
opposite

698
00:23:35,039 --> 00:23:38,320
is this normal or is it not normal yeah

699
00:23:38,320 --> 00:23:41,120
and so it is it was kind of a eye-opener

700
00:23:41,120 --> 00:23:42,000
but at the same time i was like yeah

701
00:23:42,000 --> 00:23:42,960
well that's how it's supposed to be

702
00:23:42,960 --> 00:23:45,279
it's a big deal so if if it's a family

703
00:23:45,279 --> 00:23:46,400
trip

704
00:23:46,400 --> 00:23:48,640
who's the mom who's the paw who's the

705
00:23:48,640 --> 00:23:50,640
the the weird uncle who's the

706
00:23:50,640 --> 00:23:55,440
bretty kid who's the weird uncle well um

707
00:23:56,320 --> 00:23:58,960
who's the weird uncle it was not i

708
00:23:58,960 --> 00:24:00,320
shouldn't say it was a family camping

709
00:24:00,320 --> 00:24:01,760
trip it was more like

710
00:24:01,760 --> 00:24:07,760
a rejects of the boy scouts camping trip

711
00:24:07,760 --> 00:24:09,200
that's kind of a bad way to put it but

712
00:24:09,200 --> 00:24:10,960
that's

713
00:24:10,960 --> 00:24:13,600
who's the weird uncle it was not i

714
00:24:13,600 --> 00:24:14,880
shouldn't say it was a family camping

715
00:24:14,880 --> 00:24:16,840
trip it was more like

716
00:24:16,840 --> 00:24:19,919
a rejects of the boy scouts

717
00:24:19,919 --> 00:24:23,200
camping trip and that's kind of a bad

718
00:24:23,200 --> 00:24:24,080
way to put it but that's

719
00:24:24,080 --> 00:24:25,360
but but that gets you where you at it's

720
00:24:25,360 --> 00:24:27,279
like there's the crazy uncle or

721
00:24:27,279 --> 00:24:30,720
or the i want to be the good uncle yeah

722
00:24:30,720 --> 00:24:32,480
taking every all the boys out for

723
00:24:32,480 --> 00:24:34,320
jefferson that's jespersen okay

724
00:24:34,320 --> 00:24:36,000
who's you know like i'm gonna i gotta

725
00:24:36,000 --> 00:24:38,080
call your moms so

726
00:24:38,080 --> 00:24:41,279
don't get out of the van yeah we're okay

727
00:24:41,279 --> 00:24:43,360
we're doing great thanks bye i mean of

728
00:24:43,360 --> 00:24:44,559
course that didn't happen but

729
00:24:44,559 --> 00:24:47,200
that's kind of where it was paul was

730
00:24:47,200 --> 00:24:48,960
paul was

731
00:24:48,960 --> 00:24:50,480
i wouldn't say sullen but just kind of

732
00:24:50,480 --> 00:24:52,080
introspective and kind of thinking about

733
00:24:52,080 --> 00:24:52,640
things

734
00:24:52,640 --> 00:24:56,240
and working in his mind and tommy and

735
00:24:56,240 --> 00:24:58,000
bob and chris were

736
00:24:58,000 --> 00:25:01,919
going crazy and you know to the point of

737
00:25:01,919 --> 00:25:04,960
well so as an example of a story

738
00:25:04,960 --> 00:25:08,320
uh after have having done several shows

739
00:25:08,320 --> 00:25:10,080
that spring that summer

740
00:25:10,080 --> 00:25:13,360
uh i was given the opportunity as it was

741
00:25:13,360 --> 00:25:14,960
or not to go out

742
00:25:14,960 --> 00:25:16,960
to iowa with the band they had to play

743
00:25:16,960 --> 00:25:18,320
an outdoor festival

744
00:25:18,320 --> 00:25:19,919
outdoor somewhere in ames iowa was

745
00:25:19,919 --> 00:25:22,000
probably the campus there and we played

746
00:25:22,000 --> 00:25:22,880
outdoors

747
00:25:22,880 --> 00:25:25,840
on the way there

748
00:25:25,919 --> 00:25:28,000
of course a lot of uh alcohol was

749
00:25:28,000 --> 00:25:29,840
consumed actually in

750
00:25:29,840 --> 00:25:33,039
the van when it was being driven um

751
00:25:33,039 --> 00:25:36,159
that was not illegal at that time uh

752
00:25:36,159 --> 00:25:39,679
and uh it wasn't all the reason you

753
00:25:39,679 --> 00:25:43,840
couldn't drink it

754
00:25:45,679 --> 00:25:48,480
you know the the pent-up energy that

755
00:25:48,480 --> 00:25:49,440
occurred

756
00:25:49,440 --> 00:25:52,480
when taking long road trips um you know

757
00:25:52,480 --> 00:25:54,400
we have to be there at a certain time no

758
00:25:54,400 --> 00:25:56,880
we can't stop no we've got to keep going

759
00:25:56,880 --> 00:26:00,080
so you know me as the straight guy who's

760
00:26:00,080 --> 00:26:02,000
driving is like i'm sorry guys

761
00:26:02,000 --> 00:26:04,240
open the door piss out the side we can't

762
00:26:04,240 --> 00:26:06,080
stop we got to get to the club or we got

763
00:26:06,080 --> 00:26:06,960
to get to the gig

764
00:26:06,960 --> 00:26:10,320
we just don't have time

765
00:26:10,320 --> 00:26:12,320
that happened repeatedly so on a

766
00:26:12,320 --> 00:26:14,080
particular trip down to ames

767
00:26:14,080 --> 00:26:16,480
uh i i distinctly remember there being

768
00:26:16,480 --> 00:26:17,919
some kind of wrestling match going on in

769
00:26:17,919 --> 00:26:18,960
the back

770
00:26:18,960 --> 00:26:20,400
and of course the door flying open and

771
00:26:20,400 --> 00:26:21,760
stuff's starting to fly out the side of

772
00:26:21,760 --> 00:26:22,320
the van

773
00:26:22,320 --> 00:26:25,600
beer bottles or cans or trash or

774
00:26:25,600 --> 00:26:26,640
whatever it might be

775
00:26:26,640 --> 00:26:28,960
and then this person's shirt and then

776
00:26:28,960 --> 00:26:30,799
this person's pants and this person's

777
00:26:30,799 --> 00:26:32,159
pants and this person's shirt and of

778
00:26:32,159 --> 00:26:34,080
course now they're all in their skivvies

779
00:26:34,080 --> 00:26:36,480
and i'm the one driving of course i have

780
00:26:36,480 --> 00:26:38,080
my clothes on still

781
00:26:38,080 --> 00:26:41,840
and there was no concern of we could die

782
00:26:41,840 --> 00:26:43,919
i mean we can't we can't die nothing

783
00:26:43,919 --> 00:26:45,200
will happen right

784
00:26:45,200 --> 00:26:46,640
i'll be able to recover from whatever

785
00:26:46,640 --> 00:26:47,840
kind of stuff you do to me so go ahead

786
00:26:47,840 --> 00:26:49,360
and try to take my clothes off and they

787
00:26:49,360 --> 00:26:50,000
did

788
00:26:50,000 --> 00:26:52,000
they actually did and they actually got

789
00:26:52,000 --> 00:26:53,200
my clothes off and threw them out the

790
00:26:53,200 --> 00:26:54,320
window so now we're all

791
00:26:54,320 --> 00:26:56,400
driving down the road with no clothes on

792
00:26:56,400 --> 00:26:58,640
and this is a day gig we're not really

793
00:26:58,640 --> 00:27:02,799
expecting to be staying overnight

794
00:27:02,799 --> 00:27:06,320
yeah a fascinating no suitcases no no

795
00:27:06,320 --> 00:27:07,840
no we're going down for the day we're

796
00:27:07,840 --> 00:27:08,720
going to play the gig we're going to

797
00:27:08,720 --> 00:27:10,480
drive back that night

798
00:27:10,480 --> 00:27:13,760
and yeah i mean it's just like and that

799
00:27:13,760 --> 00:27:17,360
what did you do um

800
00:27:17,360 --> 00:27:19,760
bob probably just played this underwear

801
00:27:19,760 --> 00:27:21,279
yeah bob went through with it

802
00:27:21,279 --> 00:27:24,720
i um

803
00:27:24,720 --> 00:27:26,720
honestly i don't recall what we did we

804
00:27:26,720 --> 00:27:28,399
did end up actually getting

805
00:27:28,399 --> 00:27:32,320
some clothing and we did actually end up

806
00:27:32,320 --> 00:27:34,080
uh getting into trouble with the law in

807
00:27:34,080 --> 00:27:35,919
that particular event also

808
00:27:35,919 --> 00:27:37,360
and you know and those kinds of things

809
00:27:37,360 --> 00:27:40,240
were if once the once the energy

810
00:27:40,240 --> 00:27:43,279
was to a certain level or the rowdiness

811
00:27:43,279 --> 00:27:44,880
or the craziness or whatever you want to

812
00:27:44,880 --> 00:27:46,000
call it once the energy was a certain

813
00:27:46,000 --> 00:27:47,200
level that would carry

814
00:27:47,200 --> 00:27:50,399
forward into performance and even after

815
00:27:50,399 --> 00:27:51,679
performance and then

816
00:27:51,679 --> 00:27:53,840
whatever the next day might bring so and

817
00:27:53,840 --> 00:27:55,840
that's kind of where once things got

818
00:27:55,840 --> 00:27:58,399
out of hand i understand it's a terrible

819
00:27:58,399 --> 00:27:59,520
term because it wasn't really out of

820
00:27:59,520 --> 00:28:00,960
hand it was just once things got to kind

821
00:28:00,960 --> 00:28:02,720
of a crazy level

822
00:28:02,720 --> 00:28:05,679
that just kept going you know you egged

823
00:28:05,679 --> 00:28:07,360
me on i ag you on and we just keep kind

824
00:28:07,360 --> 00:28:08,159
of ratching it

825
00:28:08,159 --> 00:28:10,080
up you know as as you mentioned it's

826
00:28:10,080 --> 00:28:11,919
like a five to one

827
00:28:11,919 --> 00:28:14,720
yeah i can outdo you i can always outdo

828
00:28:14,720 --> 00:28:15,440
you

829
00:28:15,440 --> 00:28:18,799
watch this yeah crazy

830
00:28:18,799 --> 00:28:20,240
do you remember what the was the trouble

831
00:28:20,240 --> 00:28:23,039
with the law a frequent thing

832
00:28:23,039 --> 00:28:25,360
um

833
00:28:26,240 --> 00:28:28,640
well the trouble with the any any

834
00:28:28,640 --> 00:28:31,039
trouble with the law was

835
00:28:31,039 --> 00:28:34,720
typically very incidental based speeding

836
00:28:34,720 --> 00:28:38,480
open bottle trouble on stage

837
00:28:38,480 --> 00:28:40,799
etc yeah um i can distinguish number

838
00:28:40,799 --> 00:28:42,720
three uh

839
00:28:42,720 --> 00:28:44,799
i can distinctly remember three events

840
00:28:44,799 --> 00:28:46,960
one is this uh ames show where

841
00:28:46,960 --> 00:28:49,760
we were playing bob got pissed off about

842
00:28:49,760 --> 00:28:50,960
something

843
00:28:50,960 --> 00:28:53,440
do not know what and destroyed his wedge

844
00:28:53,440 --> 00:28:54,640
monitor in front of him

845
00:28:54,640 --> 00:28:58,159
and the the sound company furious comes

846
00:28:58,159 --> 00:28:59,279
to me and says hey

847
00:28:59,279 --> 00:29:00,559
i need you to pay for that it's going to

848
00:29:00,559 --> 00:29:02,480
be 200 or whatever the number was and

849
00:29:02,480 --> 00:29:02,880
i'm like

850
00:29:02,880 --> 00:29:04,799
i don't have any cash i've got nothing

851
00:29:04,799 --> 00:29:06,240
i've got a credit card

852
00:29:06,240 --> 00:29:08,720
that i can buy gas with on the way home

853
00:29:08,720 --> 00:29:10,480
i'm expecting you to get a check

854
00:29:10,480 --> 00:29:14,559
from the venue what can i do i can't do

855
00:29:14,559 --> 00:29:16,000
anything about it

856
00:29:16,000 --> 00:29:17,919
he called the police and the police

857
00:29:17,919 --> 00:29:19,039
surrounded our van

858
00:29:19,039 --> 00:29:21,679
and would not let us leave because we

859
00:29:21,679 --> 00:29:22,799
hadn't paid for this

860
00:29:22,799 --> 00:29:25,360
and it came down to me negotiating with

861
00:29:25,360 --> 00:29:27,039
the person saying look

862
00:29:27,039 --> 00:29:30,640
my word that we will pay you for this

863
00:29:30,640 --> 00:29:33,279
i will personally pay you for this we

864
00:29:33,279 --> 00:29:35,120
don't have any cash we've got nothing on

865
00:29:35,120 --> 00:29:36,080
us

866
00:29:36,080 --> 00:29:38,480
you're welcome to do whatever you'd like

867
00:29:38,480 --> 00:29:39,919
but we're just going to stay here

868
00:29:39,919 --> 00:29:41,679
because we've got nothing else we can do

869
00:29:41,679 --> 00:29:44,159
we did get out of that without without

870
00:29:44,159 --> 00:29:45,440
too much difficulty but

871
00:29:45,440 --> 00:29:48,159
you could see the glee in the eyes of

872
00:29:48,159 --> 00:29:48,960
the

873
00:29:48,960 --> 00:29:52,159
sheriff baseball cap hoping to do

874
00:29:52,159 --> 00:29:53,039
something with these

875
00:29:53,039 --> 00:29:56,880
hooligans yeah um one more story on the

876
00:29:56,880 --> 00:30:00,000
uh the police driving in downtown

877
00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:00,720
chicago

878
00:30:00,720 --> 00:30:02,240
not knowing what i was looking for at

879
00:30:02,240 --> 00:30:04,640
the time um

880
00:30:04,640 --> 00:30:06,240
and unbeknownst to me of course there

881
00:30:06,240 --> 00:30:07,679
was open bottles in the back

882
00:30:07,679 --> 00:30:11,039
of the van i had no idea

883
00:30:11,039 --> 00:30:14,159
um we got pulled over

884
00:30:14,159 --> 00:30:17,360
and you know chicago police the fine

885
00:30:17,360 --> 00:30:19,679
gentleman that they are

886
00:30:19,679 --> 00:30:23,600
realized our predicament when when

887
00:30:23,600 --> 00:30:25,360
when i got out of the van i was driving

888
00:30:25,360 --> 00:30:26,720
when i got to the van and

889
00:30:26,720 --> 00:30:28,480
uh carlson got out of the van tom

890
00:30:28,480 --> 00:30:30,240
carlson got out of the van

891
00:30:30,240 --> 00:30:32,240
uh we were both taken to the back of the

892
00:30:32,240 --> 00:30:33,600
squad car and

893
00:30:33,600 --> 00:30:34,880
we're told basically here's the

894
00:30:34,880 --> 00:30:37,919
situation you guys have an open bottle

895
00:30:37,919 --> 00:30:40,159
there's probably drugs in your van we

896
00:30:40,159 --> 00:30:42,080
don't even have to go in it to know

897
00:30:42,080 --> 00:30:43,600
that this is you're going to be in huge

898
00:30:43,600 --> 00:30:46,240
trouble you're a long ways from home

899
00:30:46,240 --> 00:30:48,399
you're going to have to come back be

900
00:30:48,399 --> 00:30:49,760
arraigned then you're gonna have to come

901
00:30:49,760 --> 00:30:50,399
back

902
00:30:50,399 --> 00:30:51,679
and you're gonna have to go to court and

903
00:30:51,679 --> 00:30:53,120
you're gonna have to you know who knows

904
00:30:53,120 --> 00:30:54,320
what's gonna happen there and when they

905
00:30:54,320 --> 00:30:56,399
find you guilty because it's obvious

906
00:30:56,399 --> 00:31:00,399
you're gonna have to serve some time

907
00:31:00,640 --> 00:31:02,080
so we're gonna let you guys think about

908
00:31:02,080 --> 00:31:03,760
this for a few minutes and we're going

909
00:31:03,760 --> 00:31:06,480
to go back and take a look in the van

910
00:31:06,480 --> 00:31:08,159
and they reached through the little open

911
00:31:08,159 --> 00:31:11,200
window and opened up the little

912
00:31:11,200 --> 00:31:13,120
cigarette holder in the back of their

913
00:31:13,120 --> 00:31:14,480
seat

914
00:31:14,480 --> 00:31:16,880
and then got out of their car and we

915
00:31:16,880 --> 00:31:18,159
we're in the back of the car and tom

916
00:31:18,159 --> 00:31:19,360
carlson looks at me and goes how much

917
00:31:19,360 --> 00:31:20,480
money you got and

918
00:31:20,480 --> 00:31:21,840
like 20 bucks or whatever and he's like

919
00:31:21,840 --> 00:31:23,519
okay i got it i got a little more let's

920
00:31:23,519 --> 00:31:24,880
put let's put the money in

921
00:31:24,880 --> 00:31:26,480
and we'll close this and we'll be out of

922
00:31:26,480 --> 00:31:28,240
this and i'm looking at him like

923
00:31:28,240 --> 00:31:31,360
what are you talking about

924
00:31:31,360 --> 00:31:34,640
and lo and behold they came back they

925
00:31:34,640 --> 00:31:36,320
saw the little thing was closed they

926
00:31:36,320 --> 00:31:37,760
opened the thing up and they said

927
00:31:37,760 --> 00:31:40,720
gentlemen thank you so much enjoy

928
00:31:40,720 --> 00:31:41,919
chicago

929
00:31:41,919 --> 00:31:46,240
and they let us go and

930
00:31:46,240 --> 00:31:49,519
and that's that's the kind of

931
00:31:49,519 --> 00:31:52,559
education i got not that i could always

932
00:31:52,559 --> 00:31:53,360
bribe a cop

933
00:31:53,360 --> 00:31:56,799
not that i could you know ever

934
00:31:56,799 --> 00:31:58,080
probably get away with anything like

935
00:31:58,080 --> 00:32:00,320
that ever again in my life but

936
00:32:00,320 --> 00:32:02,559
that was kind of the seat of your pants

937
00:32:02,559 --> 00:32:04,880
quick thinking make sure you

938
00:32:04,880 --> 00:32:06,640
make it up because it's if you're not

939
00:32:06,640 --> 00:32:08,159
making it who's going to make it up

940
00:32:08,159 --> 00:32:10,080
i mean to me and it's like everyone i've

941
00:32:10,080 --> 00:32:11,600
talked to it's like i mean

942
00:32:11,600 --> 00:32:14,480
if you look up that i'll use a complete

943
00:32:14,480 --> 00:32:15,679
if you look at rock and roll in the

944
00:32:15,679 --> 00:32:16,799
dictionary you should see the picture of

945
00:32:16,799 --> 00:32:17,679
these four guys

946
00:32:17,679 --> 00:32:20,960
i agree that is they embodied

947
00:32:20,960 --> 00:32:23,600
what the rock and roll spirit is which i

948
00:32:23,600 --> 00:32:24,559
mean because to me i hate there's

949
00:32:24,559 --> 00:32:25,760
nothing more i hate to rock and roll

950
00:32:25,760 --> 00:32:27,120
with like like shows and someone hits

951
00:32:27,120 --> 00:32:28,240
their mark and it's like that's not

952
00:32:28,240 --> 00:32:29,440
[ __ ] rock and roll it's like i'm

953
00:32:29,440 --> 00:32:30,640
seeing a broadway play

954
00:32:30,640 --> 00:32:33,200
it's opera yeah you know i mean you know

955
00:32:33,200 --> 00:32:36,720
it's a musical and it's like it's like

956
00:32:36,720 --> 00:32:40,000
the chaos is is you know it is what i

957
00:32:40,000 --> 00:32:40,320
think

958
00:32:40,320 --> 00:32:42,399
is part of well a big part of their

959
00:32:42,399 --> 00:32:43,519
charm you know and

960
00:32:43,519 --> 00:32:46,320
why people you know well why do people

961
00:32:46,320 --> 00:32:46,720
go

962
00:32:46,720 --> 00:32:50,960
to watch race car driving

963
00:32:50,960 --> 00:32:54,080
why for what purpose

964
00:32:54,080 --> 00:32:55,600
i mean watching somebody go around the

965
00:32:55,600 --> 00:32:57,120
track you know

966
00:32:57,120 --> 00:32:58,480
there's a lot of skill involved in it

967
00:32:58,480 --> 00:33:00,559
don't get me wrong i'm impressed

968
00:33:00,559 --> 00:33:02,640
by somebody who can actually sit in a

969
00:33:02,640 --> 00:33:04,240
car for several hours

970
00:33:04,240 --> 00:33:06,320
with you know incredible g-force and

971
00:33:06,320 --> 00:33:07,679
incredible concentration

972
00:33:07,679 --> 00:33:09,600
but from a spectator's point of view

973
00:33:09,600 --> 00:33:10,799
what's the point yeah they're going

974
00:33:10,799 --> 00:33:12,559
around in a circle

975
00:33:12,559 --> 00:33:14,880
but there i think there there's that

976
00:33:14,880 --> 00:33:17,279
glimmer of hope that something crazy is

977
00:33:17,279 --> 00:33:18,480
going to happen

978
00:33:18,480 --> 00:33:20,799
it's the crash it's the excitement of

979
00:33:20,799 --> 00:33:22,799
the moment whatever it might be

980
00:33:22,799 --> 00:33:26,000
that is kind of where you know as i said

981
00:33:26,000 --> 00:33:27,679
my friends asked me so what happened

982
00:33:27,679 --> 00:33:29,519
yeah it's like well they played a gig

983
00:33:29,519 --> 00:33:30,880
well i mean i think the thing with the

984
00:33:30,880 --> 00:33:32,159
mats is that if

985
00:33:32,159 --> 00:33:34,720
they didn't crash well your alternative

986
00:33:34,720 --> 00:33:35,600
way you're going to see the greatest

987
00:33:35,600 --> 00:33:37,279
rock and roll band ever play if you play

988
00:33:37,279 --> 00:33:39,039
a great show right so it was it was

989
00:33:39,039 --> 00:33:41,200
it was it was a win-win situation i mean

990
00:33:41,200 --> 00:33:42,720
it was no matter what you were seeing i

991
00:33:42,720 --> 00:33:43,200
mean i

992
00:33:43,200 --> 00:33:44,799
i actually have enjoyed both kinds of

993
00:33:44,799 --> 00:33:46,399
shows you know uh i mean

994
00:33:46,399 --> 00:33:47,840
you put it under my head i probably

995
00:33:47,840 --> 00:33:49,519
would i would probably absolutely pick

996
00:33:49,519 --> 00:33:50,240
the

997
00:33:50,240 --> 00:33:53,200
the the play the songs you know kind of

998
00:33:53,200 --> 00:33:54,640
you know show with a few covers thrown

999
00:33:54,640 --> 00:33:56,559
in as opposed to complete opposite but

1000
00:33:56,559 --> 00:33:58,320
um see i would pick this up exactly the

1001
00:33:58,320 --> 00:34:00,799
opposite i i mean

1002
00:34:00,799 --> 00:34:03,679
the [ __ ] hits the fans tape is the

1003
00:34:03,679 --> 00:34:05,440
quintessential show for me

1004
00:34:05,440 --> 00:34:08,720
where they get on stage and they ask for

1005
00:34:08,720 --> 00:34:09,839
what to be played and

1006
00:34:09,839 --> 00:34:11,440
somebody always yells out customer or

1007
00:34:11,440 --> 00:34:14,159
[ __ ] school and then it's like

1008
00:34:14,159 --> 00:34:16,240
yeah maybe but you know if you threw out

1009
00:34:16,240 --> 00:34:17,839
something crazy that

1010
00:34:17,839 --> 00:34:19,599
you know clambake or who knows what it

1011
00:34:19,599 --> 00:34:21,359
might be and

1012
00:34:21,359 --> 00:34:24,159
they it sparks something in one of them

1013
00:34:24,159 --> 00:34:25,760
and they just start doing it and they

1014
00:34:25,760 --> 00:34:27,200
all fall in together

1015
00:34:27,200 --> 00:34:28,480
and they kind of pick it up and they

1016
00:34:28,480 --> 00:34:31,040
play you know the first verse in the

1017
00:34:31,040 --> 00:34:33,280
first chorus and then it falls apart

1018
00:34:33,280 --> 00:34:37,280
that to me is what rock and roll is

1019
00:34:37,280 --> 00:34:40,000
and that to me is where the magic

1020
00:34:40,000 --> 00:34:41,359
occurred with that band

1021
00:34:41,359 --> 00:34:42,800
it wasn't the fact that they could put

1022
00:34:42,800 --> 00:34:44,960
together great songs they could do that

1023
00:34:44,960 --> 00:34:48,000
but lots of bands can do that it's very

1024
00:34:48,000 --> 00:34:49,760
difficult for a band to be willing to

1025
00:34:49,760 --> 00:34:51,679
fall flat in their face

1026
00:34:51,679 --> 00:34:54,320
and get up and do it again and again and

1027
00:34:54,320 --> 00:34:56,320
again that right there is what makes me

1028
00:34:56,320 --> 00:34:56,800
go

1029
00:34:56,800 --> 00:34:59,280
these guys are great okay that you bring

1030
00:34:59,280 --> 00:35:00,400
up uh

1031
00:35:00,400 --> 00:35:02,320
should hit the van that's you have a

1032
00:35:02,320 --> 00:35:03,520
good story about that because i don't

1033
00:35:03,520 --> 00:35:05,359
think it wouldn't exist without you

1034
00:35:05,359 --> 00:35:08,960
okay i'll accept that and i'm

1035
00:35:08,960 --> 00:35:10,960
i don't have a large ego that i'm aware

1036
00:35:10,960 --> 00:35:12,240
of but i might

1037
00:35:12,240 --> 00:35:15,760
um the story behind it

1038
00:35:15,760 --> 00:35:20,480
is we're coming home from uh

1039
00:35:20,480 --> 00:35:22,560
for a sake of argument an extended run

1040
00:35:22,560 --> 00:35:23,920
across the country and we're playing

1041
00:35:23,920 --> 00:35:25,839
oklahoma and we stop

1042
00:35:25,839 --> 00:35:29,280
at this place and

1043
00:35:29,280 --> 00:35:31,200
or at lincoln nebraska i'm sorry i may

1044
00:35:31,200 --> 00:35:32,720
be confused here in any case

1045
00:35:32,720 --> 00:35:35,440
we're playing a place that is pretty

1046
00:35:35,440 --> 00:35:36,000
much

1047
00:35:36,000 --> 00:35:39,200
wound down spring break is either

1048
00:35:39,200 --> 00:35:40,960
occurring or it's right around when

1049
00:35:40,960 --> 00:35:42,960
there's nobody in this particular

1050
00:35:42,960 --> 00:35:44,800
college town and this particular

1051
00:35:44,800 --> 00:35:46,400
location happens to have

1052
00:35:46,400 --> 00:35:48,800
nobody visiting it so there's very very

1053
00:35:48,800 --> 00:35:50,240
few people in the audience

1054
00:35:50,240 --> 00:35:51,599
and if you listen to the tape you can

1055
00:35:51,599 --> 00:35:53,599
hear paul asks for the people to move

1056
00:35:53,599 --> 00:35:54,560
closer

1057
00:35:54,560 --> 00:35:56,560
they don't gotta but he really wants it

1058
00:35:56,560 --> 00:35:57,920
to be more intimate because they really

1059
00:35:57,920 --> 00:35:58,800
enjoyed that

1060
00:35:58,800 --> 00:36:00,640
wall of people in front of them they're

1061
00:36:00,640 --> 00:36:02,240
sweating the audience waiting

1062
00:36:02,240 --> 00:36:06,320
they really preferred that anyway

1063
00:36:06,320 --> 00:36:09,520
uh i'm playing i'm mixing the show

1064
00:36:09,520 --> 00:36:11,920
and this particular location is a big

1065
00:36:11,920 --> 00:36:12,640
square room

1066
00:36:12,640 --> 00:36:15,040
and has a balcony above me and i decide

1067
00:36:15,040 --> 00:36:15,680
that i'm going to

1068
00:36:15,680 --> 00:36:17,760
walk around and listen to the show and

1069
00:36:17,760 --> 00:36:18,880
see what i hear

1070
00:36:18,880 --> 00:36:22,640
and i walk up and you know any time

1071
00:36:22,640 --> 00:36:24,320
a show is being recorded you know the

1072
00:36:24,320 --> 00:36:26,000
objective is to stop that from occurring

1073
00:36:26,000 --> 00:36:27,760
bootlegging is not acceptable

1074
00:36:27,760 --> 00:36:29,040
we're taking that and i happen to

1075
00:36:29,040 --> 00:36:31,599
confiscate this tape from this guy

1076
00:36:31,599 --> 00:36:34,320
you know where it ends is where it ends

1077
00:36:34,320 --> 00:36:35,200
beautifully

1078
00:36:35,200 --> 00:36:39,599
um and we listen to it on the way home

1079
00:36:39,599 --> 00:36:43,200
and while we're listening to it chris

1080
00:36:43,200 --> 00:36:47,040
it starts to draw a drawing that

1081
00:36:47,040 --> 00:36:50,079
he it turns into the cover art for uh

1082
00:36:50,079 --> 00:36:53,119
for the cassette and

1083
00:36:53,119 --> 00:36:56,560
we get back to minneapolis and i've

1084
00:36:56,560 --> 00:36:59,119
got this cassette we i give it to steve

1085
00:36:59,119 --> 00:36:59,680
felstad

1086
00:36:59,680 --> 00:37:02,480
he masters it over to on to some bigger

1087
00:37:02,480 --> 00:37:02,960
tape

1088
00:37:02,960 --> 00:37:04,960
and then from there i get the cassette

1089
00:37:04,960 --> 00:37:06,640
back and when i get it back it's being

1090
00:37:06,640 --> 00:37:08,000
listened to by paul and gets a little

1091
00:37:08,000 --> 00:37:11,760
actual erasure in it and it's uh

1092
00:37:11,760 --> 00:37:15,200
it's a story where i'm i mean

1093
00:37:15,200 --> 00:37:18,079
my part is pretty insignificant i mean

1094
00:37:18,079 --> 00:37:19,680
all honesty it's i happened to pick up a

1095
00:37:19,680 --> 00:37:20,720
cassette from somebody who was making a

1096
00:37:20,720 --> 00:37:21,520
tape of the show

1097
00:37:21,520 --> 00:37:25,599
and it happens to sound really good

1098
00:37:25,599 --> 00:37:27,920
you know that just it just it just

1099
00:37:27,920 --> 00:37:29,200
happened what do you remember what kind

1100
00:37:29,200 --> 00:37:30,320
of cassette recorder you would have been

1101
00:37:30,320 --> 00:37:32,160
using to even get a decent sound

1102
00:37:32,160 --> 00:37:34,480
uh i don't think it was necessarily the

1103
00:37:34,480 --> 00:37:36,240
recorder i believe it was the particular

1104
00:37:36,240 --> 00:37:37,440
location where this

1105
00:37:37,440 --> 00:37:39,920
where this particular person was i mean

1106
00:37:39,920 --> 00:37:41,440
obviously he was using some

1107
00:37:41,440 --> 00:37:44,240
better end equipment right um but he was

1108
00:37:44,240 --> 00:37:45,680
just dumping it to a cassette

1109
00:37:45,680 --> 00:37:47,760
and you know what max elka said is what

1110
00:37:47,760 --> 00:37:49,359
a maxell case is that

1111
00:37:49,359 --> 00:37:51,200
the last song just cuts off yes because

1112
00:37:51,200 --> 00:37:52,800
that's right i open it up and pull it

1113
00:37:52,800 --> 00:37:53,359
out

1114
00:37:53,359 --> 00:37:55,200
wow okay because it's just like this

1115
00:37:55,200 --> 00:37:57,200
just literally like 11 or 14 seconds or

1116
00:37:57,200 --> 00:37:58,000
something of the last

1117
00:37:58,000 --> 00:38:00,720
right there and it's like yeah yeah so

1118
00:38:00,720 --> 00:38:01,520
yeah so

1119
00:38:01,520 --> 00:38:03,200
i mean what whether you was that the

1120
00:38:03,200 --> 00:38:04,560
very end of the show i mean was there

1121
00:38:04,560 --> 00:38:06,079
more so no there was more songs after

1122
00:38:06,079 --> 00:38:06,400
that

1123
00:38:06,400 --> 00:38:08,400
okay yeah and and that that particular

1124
00:38:08,400 --> 00:38:10,400
show i mean what the energy in that

1125
00:38:10,400 --> 00:38:13,040
was down even though it may not sound

1126
00:38:13,040 --> 00:38:14,320
like it in the particular show

1127
00:38:14,320 --> 00:38:17,359
the energy of that event was down not a

1128
00:38:17,359 --> 00:38:19,040
lot of audience which always makes it

1129
00:38:19,040 --> 00:38:19,599
down

1130
00:38:19,599 --> 00:38:22,640
and tired the guys are tired

1131
00:38:22,640 --> 00:38:24,960
um we get back to minneapolis i think

1132
00:38:24,960 --> 00:38:25,920
there's a break for

1133
00:38:25,920 --> 00:38:28,240
a week or two weeks and during that time

1134
00:38:28,240 --> 00:38:30,160
is when decided to put this cassette out

1135
00:38:30,160 --> 00:38:30,960
and

1136
00:38:30,960 --> 00:38:32,079
i don't know how long it took to

1137
00:38:32,079 --> 00:38:33,200
actually duplicate and start

1138
00:38:33,200 --> 00:38:34,480
distributing the cassette but

1139
00:38:34,480 --> 00:38:37,760
it you know it

1140
00:38:38,400 --> 00:38:40,079
there isn't a lot of magic behind it

1141
00:38:40,079 --> 00:38:41,760
it's just a story and i'm

1142
00:38:41,760 --> 00:38:42,960
i don't want to make this sound like

1143
00:38:42,960 --> 00:38:44,480
it's not a big deal because to some

1144
00:38:44,480 --> 00:38:45,760
people it's a huge deal

1145
00:38:45,760 --> 00:38:48,079
i mean it is one of those things where

1146
00:38:48,079 --> 00:38:49,839
you just happen to be at the right place

1147
00:38:49,839 --> 00:38:51,280
at the right time doing the right band

1148
00:38:51,280 --> 00:38:52,720
and you happen to see the wrong guy

1149
00:38:52,720 --> 00:38:54,079
doing the wrong thing and you take it

1150
00:38:54,079 --> 00:38:55,040
from him

1151
00:38:55,040 --> 00:38:56,720
and also i mean really when does a

1152
00:38:56,720 --> 00:38:59,520
record label put out their own bootleg

1153
00:38:59,520 --> 00:39:02,400
i've never really heard of that before i

1154
00:39:02,400 --> 00:39:04,560
mean now it's it's you i mean now it is

1155
00:39:04,560 --> 00:39:05,680
do it all the time i mean they're

1156
00:39:05,680 --> 00:39:06,480
they're putting out you know their

1157
00:39:06,480 --> 00:39:08,640
official bootleg recordings so so and so

1158
00:39:08,640 --> 00:39:09,040
you know

1159
00:39:09,040 --> 00:39:11,280
right pearl jam bob dylan but it's like

1160
00:39:11,280 --> 00:39:12,480
here you had and

1161
00:39:12,480 --> 00:39:13,760
weren't they all distributed free to

1162
00:39:13,760 --> 00:39:16,160
press yes i believe they were right so i

1163
00:39:16,160 --> 00:39:17,920
mean you basically had a record label

1164
00:39:17,920 --> 00:39:20,800
giving away a bootleg which was

1165
00:39:20,800 --> 00:39:23,599
sort of went with the band right right

1166
00:39:23,599 --> 00:39:24,800
right you know

1167
00:39:24,800 --> 00:39:27,520
um but i don't know if this was the same

1168
00:39:27,520 --> 00:39:28,160
tour

1169
00:39:28,160 --> 00:39:31,440
there is a legendary story uh i mean bob

1170
00:39:31,440 --> 00:39:32,560
has done a lot of things on stage

1171
00:39:32,560 --> 00:39:34,720
there's a legendary san diego show which

1172
00:39:34,720 --> 00:39:35,920
i thought might have been the letter b

1173
00:39:35,920 --> 00:39:37,040
tour okay

1174
00:39:37,040 --> 00:39:39,839
where bob decided to play completely

1175
00:39:39,839 --> 00:39:41,680
stark naked except for his guitar

1176
00:39:41,680 --> 00:39:43,839
okay that that isn't the only time but

1177
00:39:43,839 --> 00:39:44,800
okay

1178
00:39:44,800 --> 00:39:47,200
and someone supposedly during guitar

1179
00:39:47,200 --> 00:39:49,040
solo threw a sneaker at him

1180
00:39:49,040 --> 00:39:51,040
he caught it urinated in it threw it

1181
00:39:51,040 --> 00:39:53,200
back to the crowd and finished the solo

1182
00:39:53,200 --> 00:39:56,240
oh my god i haven't heard that story

1183
00:39:56,240 --> 00:39:58,560
okay um but it would not surprise me if

1184
00:39:58,560 --> 00:39:59,599
it was true i didn't know if you just

1185
00:39:59,599 --> 00:40:00,079
happened

1186
00:40:00,079 --> 00:40:01,280
i would love for you if you would say oh

1187
00:40:01,280 --> 00:40:03,200
yeah i was there oh i wish i could say

1188
00:40:03,200 --> 00:40:04,960
that i was i would remember that

1189
00:40:04,960 --> 00:40:08,160
um no but that's very much like what bob

1190
00:40:08,160 --> 00:40:08,720
would do

1191
00:40:08,720 --> 00:40:11,760
i mean he was about going beyond

1192
00:40:11,760 --> 00:40:15,280
to show you that you know you can

1193
00:40:15,280 --> 00:40:16,640
you can dare me to do anything and i

1194
00:40:16,640 --> 00:40:18,640
will do it i i actually want to do a

1195
00:40:18,640 --> 00:40:19,599
quick

1196
00:40:19,599 --> 00:40:21,040
cut exactly it's like you're trying to

1197
00:40:21,040 --> 00:40:22,480
make you obviously want to make some

1198
00:40:22,480 --> 00:40:24,000
lighter moments and it's like i want to

1199
00:40:24,000 --> 00:40:24,640
do a quick cut

1200
00:40:24,640 --> 00:40:26,079
of like what bob is wearing and just cut

1201
00:40:26,079 --> 00:40:27,440
to people just saying tutu about a

1202
00:40:27,440 --> 00:40:29,040
wedding dress

1203
00:40:29,040 --> 00:40:30,240
what were some of the weird things you

1204
00:40:30,240 --> 00:40:32,160
ever saw him wear on stage

1205
00:40:32,160 --> 00:40:35,280
uh dr

1206
00:40:35,280 --> 00:40:38,400
seuss leotard you know the white

1207
00:40:38,400 --> 00:40:41,040
cat in the hat white and red stripes i

1208
00:40:41,040 --> 00:40:42,160
mean that's

1209
00:40:42,160 --> 00:40:44,400
you know

1210
00:40:45,520 --> 00:40:48,880
i mean that's that's he was he was red

1211
00:40:48,880 --> 00:40:51,599
converse all stars not high tops

1212
00:40:51,599 --> 00:40:52,000
sometimes

1213
00:40:52,000 --> 00:40:55,760
high tops um which would turned out to

1214
00:40:55,760 --> 00:40:57,280
be more black than red because they were

1215
00:40:57,280 --> 00:40:58,480
so dirty

1216
00:40:58,480 --> 00:41:00,000
he never took them off as i mentioned

1217
00:41:00,000 --> 00:41:02,240
before it's like he would sleep

1218
00:41:02,240 --> 00:41:05,359
in his clothes all the time and i

1219
00:41:05,359 --> 00:41:09,040
i i never saw him take a shower which is

1220
00:41:09,040 --> 00:41:10,880
i mean i'm not that i'm you know worried

1221
00:41:10,880 --> 00:41:12,560
about that but it's like

1222
00:41:12,560 --> 00:41:15,760
wow that's just he's just

1223
00:41:15,760 --> 00:41:20,079
he was just so focused on his

1224
00:41:20,079 --> 00:41:23,920
his universe and his universe uh

1225
00:41:23,920 --> 00:41:27,520
didn't involve certain components of

1226
00:41:27,520 --> 00:41:30,400
self-awareness i think that's an

1227
00:41:30,400 --> 00:41:32,240
appropriate way to put that maybe

1228
00:41:32,240 --> 00:41:34,880
any other interesting outfits oh let's

1229
00:41:34,880 --> 00:41:37,359
see what else did he wear

1230
00:41:37,359 --> 00:41:39,200
the tutu is the one that i love the most

1231
00:41:39,200 --> 00:41:40,880
so i really i can just see that one in

1232
00:41:40,880 --> 00:41:43,359
my mind

1233
00:41:46,240 --> 00:41:50,400
he wore a cape several times um

1234
00:41:50,400 --> 00:41:52,880
and i i don't know where that came from

1235
00:41:52,880 --> 00:41:55,119
or where he got that

1236
00:41:55,119 --> 00:41:56,560
like a superman kind of game kind of

1237
00:41:56,560 --> 00:41:58,240
like a superman cape but i was

1238
00:41:58,240 --> 00:42:01,119
but not red and i can't see the color

1239
00:42:01,119 --> 00:42:02,560
but i can see that he was wearing

1240
00:42:02,560 --> 00:42:06,000
i can see my mind wearing this cape

1241
00:42:06,000 --> 00:42:09,359
yeah he he he was about the he was about

1242
00:42:09,359 --> 00:42:10,800
the performance he was about

1243
00:42:10,800 --> 00:42:14,560
i'm gonna perform for myself and

1244
00:42:14,560 --> 00:42:16,800
and be what i'm going to be is there's

1245
00:42:16,800 --> 00:42:17,760
something behind me

1246
00:42:17,760 --> 00:42:19,920
oh yeah well i mean my goat and a horse

1247
00:42:19,920 --> 00:42:21,920
running around

1248
00:42:21,920 --> 00:42:25,599
um what in chickens oh yeah they're i

1249
00:42:25,599 --> 00:42:26,400
got a bunch of

1250
00:42:26,400 --> 00:42:27,760
animals we have a bunch of animals

1251
00:42:27,760 --> 00:42:29,839
that's like

1252
00:42:29,839 --> 00:42:31,599
it's like completely yeah here i am

1253
00:42:31,599 --> 00:42:32,880
touring the rock and roll band and i'm

1254
00:42:32,880 --> 00:42:34,000
out with a farm

1255
00:42:34,000 --> 00:42:37,520
it's kind of crazy um

1256
00:42:37,920 --> 00:42:39,440
that tour and again i'm not sure if it's

1257
00:42:39,440 --> 00:42:41,359
a there's so many shows that people talk

1258
00:42:41,359 --> 00:42:42,960
about but if you i'm i'm just want to

1259
00:42:42,960 --> 00:42:44,240
bring up a few of the ones that

1260
00:42:44,240 --> 00:42:47,520
people drive a lot city gardens

1261
00:42:47,520 --> 00:42:49,520
in new jersey were you but whole surfers

1262
00:42:49,520 --> 00:42:51,359
opened up for i believe so yes and

1263
00:42:51,359 --> 00:42:52,960
uh that was the show where on the way

1264
00:42:52,960 --> 00:42:55,280
home uh the guy who promoted the show

1265
00:42:55,280 --> 00:42:56,800
badmouthed the band on the radio and you

1266
00:42:56,800 --> 00:42:58,400
guys were listening to it on the radio

1267
00:42:58,400 --> 00:43:00,400
i do recall that okay let's let's talk

1268
00:43:00,400 --> 00:43:02,079
about that all right this show is this

1269
00:43:02,079 --> 00:43:03,280
is one of those great

1270
00:43:03,280 --> 00:43:05,200
i have five different versions of this

1271
00:43:05,200 --> 00:43:06,319
show

1272
00:43:06,319 --> 00:43:08,000
so if you'd love to have it from someone

1273
00:43:08,000 --> 00:43:10,400
who's in the van um

1274
00:43:10,400 --> 00:43:13,119
okay first off was it a completely drunk

1275
00:43:13,119 --> 00:43:14,800
and obnoxious show or what yes

1276
00:43:14,800 --> 00:43:17,839
it was okay yes this is uh

1277
00:43:17,839 --> 00:43:20,160
and of course it's all somewhat of a

1278
00:43:20,160 --> 00:43:21,440
blur of which you know

1279
00:43:21,440 --> 00:43:22,640
how much they drink before this show

1280
00:43:22,640 --> 00:43:25,040
versus this show versus this show um

1281
00:43:25,040 --> 00:43:27,599
this is a show that i recall there being

1282
00:43:27,599 --> 00:43:29,040
a lot of drinking before there were

1283
00:43:29,040 --> 00:43:29,359
actually

1284
00:43:29,359 --> 00:43:30,880
i believe two opening acts in that

1285
00:43:30,880 --> 00:43:33,119
particular event but all surfers

1286
00:43:33,119 --> 00:43:36,240
and i do not recall the other band um

1287
00:43:36,240 --> 00:43:40,000
and i recall being not long not

1288
00:43:40,000 --> 00:43:43,119
a normal length event

1289
00:43:43,119 --> 00:43:45,359
um

1290
00:43:46,960 --> 00:43:49,839
stumbling drunk i guess which didn't

1291
00:43:49,839 --> 00:43:51,200
happen often

1292
00:43:51,200 --> 00:43:54,000
um and i get what i mean by stumbling

1293
00:43:54,000 --> 00:43:55,760
drunk is that

1294
00:43:55,760 --> 00:43:58,560
not you know not physically not unable

1295
00:43:58,560 --> 00:43:59,359
but

1296
00:43:59,359 --> 00:44:02,000
and then to me the stumbling drunk a

1297
00:44:02,000 --> 00:44:03,359
stumbling drunk show would have been

1298
00:44:03,359 --> 00:44:04,240
where they couldn't

1299
00:44:04,240 --> 00:44:07,119
sink together they couldn't put it

1300
00:44:07,119 --> 00:44:08,720
together for them to each other you know

1301
00:44:08,720 --> 00:44:09,040
like

1302
00:44:09,040 --> 00:44:11,680
if chris can't connect up with tommy

1303
00:44:11,680 --> 00:44:12,160
then

1304
00:44:12,160 --> 00:44:15,760
it isn't a song that to that point of

1305
00:44:15,760 --> 00:44:18,480
them all being intoxicated to that level

1306
00:44:18,480 --> 00:44:20,240
that's what that show is about that show

1307
00:44:20,240 --> 00:44:21,680
us about i'm going to see

1308
00:44:21,680 --> 00:44:23,520
we're going to see how far we can go and

1309
00:44:23,520 --> 00:44:24,720
it could be just because they didn't get

1310
00:44:24,720 --> 00:44:26,079
on stage for so long or it could be just

1311
00:44:26,079 --> 00:44:27,280
because they didn't give a rat's

1312
00:44:27,280 --> 00:44:29,520
ass or whatever happened the night

1313
00:44:29,520 --> 00:44:30,319
before

1314
00:44:30,319 --> 00:44:32,240
right right unknown where those that

1315
00:44:32,240 --> 00:44:33,520
that came from

1316
00:44:33,520 --> 00:44:36,319
um a lot of times there was other

1317
00:44:36,319 --> 00:44:37,680
besides alcohol there was other stuff

1318
00:44:37,680 --> 00:44:38,640
involved

1319
00:44:38,640 --> 00:44:41,520
and it could be that that wasn't

1320
00:44:41,520 --> 00:44:42,880
involved in that particular night so the

1321
00:44:42,880 --> 00:44:44,640
energy was different

1322
00:44:44,640 --> 00:44:47,760
um i don't have you know i i can't

1323
00:44:47,760 --> 00:44:49,599
recall anything other than them not

1324
00:44:49,599 --> 00:44:51,760
connecting and not

1325
00:44:51,760 --> 00:44:54,000
really from my perspective gelling the

1326
00:44:54,000 --> 00:44:55,359
way i think they would have gelled it in

1327
00:44:55,359 --> 00:44:55,760
better

1328
00:44:55,760 --> 00:44:57,520
better performance not because it was

1329
00:44:57,520 --> 00:44:59,599
bad right right but it wasn't

1330
00:44:59,599 --> 00:45:01,200
to me it wasn't as memorable because it

1331
00:45:01,200 --> 00:45:03,200
wasn't as much

1332
00:45:03,200 --> 00:45:06,319
camaraderie now

1333
00:45:06,319 --> 00:45:08,319
so you had this show do you remember

1334
00:45:08,319 --> 00:45:10,000
anything about the promoter being

1335
00:45:10,000 --> 00:45:13,839
randy ellis was the promoter i

1336
00:45:14,400 --> 00:45:15,839
i don't remember anything about him

1337
00:45:15,839 --> 00:45:18,160
being upset at the venue

1338
00:45:18,160 --> 00:45:21,040
right i mean because there was no you

1339
00:45:21,040 --> 00:45:22,560
know no fisticuffs

1340
00:45:22,560 --> 00:45:24,400
which could have easily happened if bob

1341
00:45:24,400 --> 00:45:25,599
had gotten involved

1342
00:45:25,599 --> 00:45:30,720
um so they're you know that

1343
00:45:31,520 --> 00:45:33,200
yeah i'm i don't recall there being

1344
00:45:33,200 --> 00:45:34,560
anything bad blood at the show but at

1345
00:45:34,560 --> 00:45:36,079
the same time it's like he ex

1346
00:45:36,079 --> 00:45:37,680
he may have expected i'm not just as

1347
00:45:37,680 --> 00:45:38,960
pure conjecture he may have expected

1348
00:45:38,960 --> 00:45:39,599
something

1349
00:45:39,599 --> 00:45:42,160
to occur and you know the fact that they

1350
00:45:42,160 --> 00:45:42,880
didn't

1351
00:45:42,880 --> 00:45:45,280
do as long a performance may have done

1352
00:45:45,280 --> 00:45:46,240
something for him

1353
00:45:46,240 --> 00:45:48,960
i mean i you know i don't know that part

1354
00:45:48,960 --> 00:45:50,240
because i didn't see that right

1355
00:45:50,240 --> 00:45:52,000
now so you're driving home in the van

1356
00:45:52,000 --> 00:45:53,760
and you put on whatever radio station it

1357
00:45:53,760 --> 00:45:54,400
is

1358
00:45:54,400 --> 00:45:57,359
and you hear the promoter call in

1359
00:45:57,359 --> 00:45:58,640
complaining about

1360
00:45:58,640 --> 00:46:01,839
how horrible this show was

1361
00:46:01,839 --> 00:46:04,560
what's the reaction

1362
00:46:05,440 --> 00:46:08,880
i think the reaction from uh

1363
00:46:08,880 --> 00:46:11,359
some members of the of the some

1364
00:46:11,359 --> 00:46:12,800
participants in the van

1365
00:46:12,800 --> 00:46:16,319
was probably disregard and

1366
00:46:16,319 --> 00:46:18,640
i mean because honestly the whole don't

1367
00:46:18,640 --> 00:46:19,520
care attitude

1368
00:46:19,520 --> 00:46:24,160
was pretty pervasive i think that

1369
00:46:24,160 --> 00:46:28,319
uh to heart it probably hurt a lot

1370
00:46:28,319 --> 00:46:31,599
and paul was very private he didn't

1371
00:46:31,599 --> 00:46:34,640
share that kind of you know did he

1372
00:46:34,640 --> 00:46:36,560
really want to be loved and liked and

1373
00:46:36,560 --> 00:46:39,520
get approval or did he not he appeared

1374
00:46:39,520 --> 00:46:40,720
like he didn't care

1375
00:46:40,720 --> 00:46:42,319
and i think a lot of times he didn't

1376
00:46:42,319 --> 00:46:44,800
care because of anger not because

1377
00:46:44,800 --> 00:46:48,160
you know he was he

1378
00:46:48,160 --> 00:46:50,000
said i don't care because he didn't want

1379
00:46:50,000 --> 00:46:52,480
to show that he really did care

1380
00:46:52,480 --> 00:46:55,520
was throwing truth to

1381
00:46:55,520 --> 00:46:58,640
the ban the you guys pulling over and uh

1382
00:46:58,640 --> 00:46:59,680
one of the guys that might have been

1383
00:46:59,680 --> 00:47:00,720
westbrook i don't know

1384
00:47:00,720 --> 00:47:02,560
uh calling up jesperson and telling him

1385
00:47:02,560 --> 00:47:05,040
about this and breaking up

1386
00:47:05,040 --> 00:47:09,040
no okay no that i'm not aware of

1387
00:47:09,040 --> 00:47:12,160
because at that particular well no i

1388
00:47:12,160 --> 00:47:13,359
don't not that i'm not

1389
00:47:13,359 --> 00:47:15,119
don't know that that's true or not okay

1390
00:47:15,119 --> 00:47:17,839
okay um

1391
00:47:17,839 --> 00:47:21,040
did you mention fisty cups

1392
00:47:21,040 --> 00:47:22,640
could have happened were there a lot of

1393
00:47:22,640 --> 00:47:24,079
fights with promoters who were like what

1394
00:47:24,079 --> 00:47:25,440
the [ __ ] did you guys just give me and

1395
00:47:25,440 --> 00:47:26,880
i'm not paying you for that or

1396
00:47:26,880 --> 00:47:30,480
whatever the

1397
00:47:31,200 --> 00:47:33,359
the all of that kind of transaction

1398
00:47:33,359 --> 00:47:34,400
would occurred

1399
00:47:34,400 --> 00:47:37,520
outside of my purview only because i

1400
00:47:37,520 --> 00:47:38,079
shouldn't say

1401
00:47:38,079 --> 00:47:39,839
that that transaction if somebody you

1402
00:47:39,839 --> 00:47:41,760
know if i was to be the one who would be

1403
00:47:41,760 --> 00:47:42,480
paid

1404
00:47:42,480 --> 00:47:43,839
then i would be the one who went and

1405
00:47:43,839 --> 00:47:46,079
said your promoter time to give me the

1406
00:47:46,079 --> 00:47:46,800
check

1407
00:47:46,800 --> 00:47:48,160
i'm sorry you're pissed off blah blah

1408
00:47:48,160 --> 00:47:50,559
blah and

1409
00:47:50,559 --> 00:47:52,000
or that would have been peter or some

1410
00:47:52,000 --> 00:47:54,240
other person at that time um

1411
00:47:54,240 --> 00:47:56,880
if it were in my purview then i would

1412
00:47:56,880 --> 00:47:57,520
have definitely

1413
00:47:57,520 --> 00:48:00,000
seen that and i've seen but i and i

1414
00:48:00,000 --> 00:48:00,880
haven't seen

1415
00:48:00,880 --> 00:48:02,880
bob get in the face of any promoter i've

1416
00:48:02,880 --> 00:48:04,880
seen him get in the face of

1417
00:48:04,880 --> 00:48:07,119
well the iowa show i get in the face of

1418
00:48:07,119 --> 00:48:07,920
the sound

1419
00:48:07,920 --> 00:48:10,000
gentlemen and and security there and

1420
00:48:10,000 --> 00:48:11,760
just being obnoxious

1421
00:48:11,760 --> 00:48:13,359
i hadn't seen edmonds never saw him got

1422
00:48:13,359 --> 00:48:15,280
in front of get in front of uh

1423
00:48:15,280 --> 00:48:18,160
any of the okay any of the promoters

1424
00:48:18,160 --> 00:48:19,040
directly

1425
00:48:19,040 --> 00:48:20,240
but it may have been outside my privy

1426
00:48:20,240 --> 00:48:22,480
too because a lot of things do occur

1427
00:48:22,480 --> 00:48:24,240
come backstage i want to you know give

1428
00:48:24,240 --> 00:48:26,800
you a line and talk a little bit

1429
00:48:26,800 --> 00:48:30,640
now um were you on the road with the ban

1430
00:48:30,640 --> 00:48:32,880
uh with the band when rj smith was

1431
00:48:32,880 --> 00:48:34,400
following along doing the piece for

1432
00:48:34,400 --> 00:48:35,839
village voice

1433
00:48:35,839 --> 00:48:38,960
i believe the answer is yes okay

1434
00:48:38,960 --> 00:48:41,760
um because he talks at length in his

1435
00:48:41,760 --> 00:48:43,040
article about

1436
00:48:43,040 --> 00:48:46,160
uh what i believe was and was it an

1437
00:48:46,160 --> 00:48:49,200
iowa show something some place i thought

1438
00:48:49,200 --> 00:48:50,160
it was iowa

1439
00:48:50,160 --> 00:48:53,760
where uh ban was not known to

1440
00:48:53,760 --> 00:48:56,400
play and majority of people started

1441
00:48:56,400 --> 00:48:57,040
leaving

1442
00:48:57,040 --> 00:48:58,640
and westwork looked out into the

1443
00:48:58,640 --> 00:49:00,480
audience and said something effective

1444
00:49:00,480 --> 00:49:02,640
i see there's still a few of you here we

1445
00:49:02,640 --> 00:49:04,240
haven't done our jobs yet and they

1446
00:49:04,240 --> 00:49:05,760
proceeded to play

1447
00:49:05,760 --> 00:49:08,000
worse worse i mean do you remember

1448
00:49:08,000 --> 00:49:09,839
anything or is that i mean is that

1449
00:49:09,839 --> 00:49:11,520
that was that more than a that happened

1450
00:49:11,520 --> 00:49:13,119
more than once i mean well in

1451
00:49:13,119 --> 00:49:16,559
a and we played a lot of outdoor events

1452
00:49:16,559 --> 00:49:19,760
that particular summer and that was

1453
00:49:19,760 --> 00:49:21,680
the don't care attitude of more of like

1454
00:49:21,680 --> 00:49:23,280
i'm gonna do this for myself or

1455
00:49:23,280 --> 00:49:25,760
we're gonna do this for ourselves oh

1456
00:49:25,760 --> 00:49:27,119
you're still here we must be doing

1457
00:49:27,119 --> 00:49:27,920
something wrong

1458
00:49:27,920 --> 00:49:31,599
i mean i i can see that occurring uh

1459
00:49:31,599 --> 00:49:33,119
there were several outdoor shows des

1460
00:49:33,119 --> 00:49:34,880
moines uh

1461
00:49:34,880 --> 00:49:36,720
maybe you can see the rapids iowa where

1462
00:49:36,720 --> 00:49:38,160
we played

1463
00:49:38,160 --> 00:49:39,680
whatever the campus might have been

1464
00:49:39,680 --> 00:49:41,359
whatever the festival might have been

1465
00:49:41,359 --> 00:49:44,400
and you know as loud as they could make

1466
00:49:44,400 --> 00:49:45,040
it

1467
00:49:45,040 --> 00:49:47,920
as loud as they could make it trying to

1468
00:49:47,920 --> 00:49:49,200
push people

1469
00:49:49,200 --> 00:49:50,720
i wouldn't say push people away but they

1470
00:49:50,720 --> 00:49:52,720
definitely did have a

1471
00:49:52,720 --> 00:49:55,760
i would disregard maybe

1472
00:49:55,760 --> 00:49:58,880
a disregard for the audience um yeah

1473
00:49:58,880 --> 00:50:02,079
no it was it was a um

1474
00:50:02,079 --> 00:50:05,040
i think it's in there yeah yeah um yeah

1475
00:50:05,040 --> 00:50:07,599
it was uh

1476
00:50:08,640 --> 00:50:12,559
did it okay i mean

1477
00:50:12,559 --> 00:50:14,880
did the disregard though i mean was

1478
00:50:14,880 --> 00:50:16,559
there ever a point in time

1479
00:50:16,559 --> 00:50:19,920
that you saw where

1480
00:50:20,319 --> 00:50:21,680
hey we got to sell records or these

1481
00:50:21,680 --> 00:50:23,119
people are buying tickets these people

1482
00:50:23,119 --> 00:50:23,520
are

1483
00:50:23,520 --> 00:50:26,720
paying for us to be here i

1484
00:50:26,720 --> 00:50:29,839
that was never ever talked about

1485
00:50:29,839 --> 00:50:33,520
publicly no discussion in the van

1486
00:50:33,520 --> 00:50:35,200
you know the internal arguments between

1487
00:50:35,200 --> 00:50:38,160
peter and paul maybe that was the case

1488
00:50:38,160 --> 00:50:41,200
but i think that and i you have to

1489
00:50:41,200 --> 00:50:42,400
confirm this with others

1490
00:50:42,400 --> 00:50:45,200
but i think that the i think peter was

1491
00:50:45,200 --> 00:50:46,160
conflicted

1492
00:50:46,160 --> 00:50:48,000
because of exactly what we think of

1493
00:50:48,000 --> 00:50:50,079
being as rock and roll and

1494
00:50:50,079 --> 00:50:53,119
commercialism and this is so against

1495
00:50:53,119 --> 00:50:54,000
commercialism

1496
00:50:54,000 --> 00:50:57,680
but it's so beautiful um

1497
00:50:57,680 --> 00:50:59,680
yeah we need to sell records yeah we

1498
00:50:59,680 --> 00:51:01,520
need to sell tickets

1499
00:51:01,520 --> 00:51:03,839
people are coming to see something right

1500
00:51:03,839 --> 00:51:05,920
after a certain line

1501
00:51:05,920 --> 00:51:08,720
you know college radio plays lots of

1502
00:51:08,720 --> 00:51:10,160
replacement songs and people are like oh

1503
00:51:10,160 --> 00:51:11,200
my god i really want to see

1504
00:51:11,200 --> 00:51:12,480
somebody i want to see him perform i

1505
00:51:12,480 --> 00:51:13,920
will there i've got to go see that i'm

1506
00:51:13,920 --> 00:51:15,520
going to go see that

1507
00:51:15,520 --> 00:51:17,040
and of course then they wouldn't play it

1508
00:51:17,040 --> 00:51:18,960
because it was the hit

1509
00:51:18,960 --> 00:51:22,240
yeah so there was a disregard with

1510
00:51:22,240 --> 00:51:24,319
connecting to the audience that wanted

1511
00:51:24,319 --> 00:51:26,559
to see them perform the art that they

1512
00:51:26,559 --> 00:51:28,079
have created on record

1513
00:51:28,079 --> 00:51:30,000
they were a live band that was more

1514
00:51:30,000 --> 00:51:32,640
about let's have fun doing stuff live

1515
00:51:32,640 --> 00:51:36,319
the disconnect that occurred

1516
00:51:36,319 --> 00:51:38,400
yeah i don't think that they realized

1517
00:51:38,400 --> 00:51:39,680
that there was a

1518
00:51:39,680 --> 00:51:44,640
a point at which they really should have

1519
00:51:44,640 --> 00:51:47,359
if they were going to do craziness you

1520
00:51:47,359 --> 00:51:47,760
know

1521
00:51:47,760 --> 00:51:51,119
sprinkle it with some sanity right

1522
00:51:51,119 --> 00:51:53,839
right be crazy but still play the hit

1523
00:51:53,839 --> 00:51:54,880
right at the end of the night for the

1524
00:51:54,880 --> 00:51:55,760
encore or whatever

1525
00:51:55,760 --> 00:51:57,520
right yeah but of course when you're

1526
00:51:57,520 --> 00:51:59,280
using when you're using substances to

1527
00:51:59,280 --> 00:51:59,599
get

1528
00:51:59,599 --> 00:52:01,520
beyond control it's hard to pull back

1529
00:52:01,520 --> 00:52:02,960
into control and play

1530
00:52:02,960 --> 00:52:07,280
something straight through so um

1531
00:52:07,280 --> 00:52:09,280
yeah i think that the people who wanted

1532
00:52:09,280 --> 00:52:11,040
to see the show be crazy

1533
00:52:11,040 --> 00:52:12,400
which the audience may have been mixed

1534
00:52:12,400 --> 00:52:14,559
50 50. i want to see the band

1535
00:52:14,559 --> 00:52:15,920
playing a tutu where i want to see the

1536
00:52:15,920 --> 00:52:18,079
band get completely naked i want to see

1537
00:52:18,079 --> 00:52:20,240
tommy smash into the audience i want to

1538
00:52:20,240 --> 00:52:22,319
see paul just wailing screaming

1539
00:52:22,319 --> 00:52:24,480
and playing covers versus the person who

1540
00:52:24,480 --> 00:52:25,760
says i love

1541
00:52:25,760 --> 00:52:27,280
westerberg songwriting and i want to see

1542
00:52:27,280 --> 00:52:29,520
him you know do weight or

1543
00:52:29,520 --> 00:52:31,839
whatever whatever they're going to play

1544
00:52:31,839 --> 00:52:33,520
this is i i just wanted i just wanted to

1545
00:52:33,520 --> 00:52:34,319
find those i

1546
00:52:34,319 --> 00:52:37,280
have the piece here with the um with the

1547
00:52:37,280 --> 00:52:40,000
with the uh

1548
00:52:40,079 --> 00:52:43,839
here we go it was in ohio

1549
00:52:43,839 --> 00:52:45,680
was that show actually was it kent falls

1550
00:52:45,680 --> 00:52:47,599
ohio did you that sound

1551
00:52:47,599 --> 00:52:50,960
kent falls um

1552
00:52:50,960 --> 00:52:54,240
kent state kent state is i don't know if

1553
00:52:54,240 --> 00:52:55,839
kent state's outside of columbus or not

1554
00:52:55,839 --> 00:52:56,319
yeah

1555
00:52:56,319 --> 00:52:58,480
okay because he played it in kent ohio

1556
00:52:58,480 --> 00:53:00,400
yes in kent ohio okay yeah

1557
00:53:00,400 --> 00:53:03,599
we i have fond memories of columbus but

1558
00:53:03,599 --> 00:53:06,800
uh i do not recall kent

1559
00:53:06,800 --> 00:53:10,400
but strong possibility

1560
00:53:10,400 --> 00:53:12,480
yeah where it's just in paul like just

1561
00:53:12,480 --> 00:53:14,079
like saying we can do this all night

1562
00:53:14,079 --> 00:53:15,440
you know it's just not like being

1563
00:53:15,440 --> 00:53:17,119
obnoxious but it was it was i

1564
00:53:17,119 --> 00:53:18,640
just remember like this story was so

1565
00:53:18,640 --> 00:53:20,079
vivid i mean it seemed like to be the

1566
00:53:20,079 --> 00:53:20,559
one

1567
00:53:20,559 --> 00:53:21,839
it was the one thing that ended the

1568
00:53:21,839 --> 00:53:23,440
piece you know we're gonna try to talk

1569
00:53:23,440 --> 00:53:24,319
to rj as well

1570
00:53:24,319 --> 00:53:29,760
okay the you know the

1571
00:53:29,760 --> 00:53:33,200
thinking about doing you know today

1572
00:53:33,200 --> 00:53:34,640
musicians will do in-store appearances

1573
00:53:34,640 --> 00:53:36,720
or actually just do a tour of in-stores

1574
00:53:36,720 --> 00:53:40,720
whatever they might do um you know

1575
00:53:40,720 --> 00:53:41,920
the band didn't like to do that they

1576
00:53:41,920 --> 00:53:43,200
didn't like to do radio they didn't like

1577
00:53:43,200 --> 00:53:44,880
to do any of the promotional component

1578
00:53:44,880 --> 00:53:46,559
that goes to actually promoting having a

1579
00:53:46,559 --> 00:53:47,520
show

1580
00:53:47,520 --> 00:53:49,920
um you know they kind of expected to be

1581
00:53:49,920 --> 00:53:51,599
able to just walk into a facility

1582
00:53:51,599 --> 00:53:52,880
whatever that facility might be whether

1583
00:53:52,880 --> 00:53:54,720
it's you know a

1584
00:53:54,720 --> 00:53:56,240
7th street entry size place where they

1585
00:53:56,240 --> 00:53:58,000
can only hold 200 people or

1586
00:53:58,000 --> 00:54:00,160
maxwell's or some small place or a big

1587
00:54:00,160 --> 00:54:01,200
place

1588
00:54:01,200 --> 00:54:03,359
palladium whatever it might be they just

1589
00:54:03,359 --> 00:54:04,720
be able to expect to walk in

1590
00:54:04,720 --> 00:54:06,400
and do what they're going to do and if

1591
00:54:06,400 --> 00:54:07,680
the audience likes it great and if they

1592
00:54:07,680 --> 00:54:08,720
don't

1593
00:54:08,720 --> 00:54:11,920
they don't the

1594
00:54:11,920 --> 00:54:14,720
i i there was a record store called

1595
00:54:14,720 --> 00:54:17,119
school kids records that

1596
00:54:17,119 --> 00:54:19,760
uh was in columbus and this isn't

1597
00:54:19,760 --> 00:54:21,440
anything of a big story but i distinctly

1598
00:54:21,440 --> 00:54:22,800
remember there being a big connection

1599
00:54:22,800 --> 00:54:25,200
there between them that record store and

1600
00:54:25,200 --> 00:54:29,119
a few blocks away a small club

1601
00:54:29,119 --> 00:54:30,319
i honestly do not remember the name of

1602
00:54:30,319 --> 00:54:33,280
the club i could drive you there

1603
00:54:33,280 --> 00:54:36,559
uh in any case you know watching

1604
00:54:36,559 --> 00:54:38,480
you know in that particular environment

1605
00:54:38,480 --> 00:54:39,839
the the magic

1606
00:54:39,839 --> 00:54:43,200
of maybe having 200 people 300 people in

1607
00:54:43,200 --> 00:54:44,720
the audience and seeing

1608
00:54:44,720 --> 00:54:48,160
x on stage with the replacements

1609
00:54:48,160 --> 00:54:50,640
you know that's the thing for me that

1610
00:54:50,640 --> 00:54:52,799
makes me go

1611
00:54:52,799 --> 00:54:57,520
i i love this band i love the ability

1612
00:54:57,520 --> 00:54:58,720
that they can get on stage and they can

1613
00:54:58,720 --> 00:55:00,559
actually if they care to

1614
00:55:00,559 --> 00:55:03,359
make it real make it very artistic make

1615
00:55:03,359 --> 00:55:05,760
it a performance

1616
00:55:05,760 --> 00:55:08,720
and they they did that at the same time

1617
00:55:08,720 --> 00:55:10,480
they were

1618
00:55:10,480 --> 00:55:12,000
more about they were just more about

1619
00:55:12,000 --> 00:55:15,119
having a fun time

1620
00:55:15,280 --> 00:55:18,880
now what was the reaction i mean

1621
00:55:18,880 --> 00:55:20,720
you're you're on let it be tour and that

1622
00:55:20,720 --> 00:55:22,960
bee is getting crazy reviews

1623
00:55:22,960 --> 00:55:25,119
i mean you know village voice yeah games

1624
00:55:25,119 --> 00:55:26,079
chris coghill is an

1625
00:55:26,079 --> 00:55:28,880
a plus you know names it second best

1626
00:55:28,880 --> 00:55:30,640
record of the year after springsteen's

1627
00:55:30,640 --> 00:55:31,760
born in usa which

1628
00:55:31,760 --> 00:55:35,359
seems silly now but um he he stands by

1629
00:55:35,359 --> 00:55:35,920
it but

1630
00:55:35,920 --> 00:55:37,280
i you know i really wanted to like say

1631
00:55:37,280 --> 00:55:38,480
when i said i said would you change your

1632
00:55:38,480 --> 00:55:39,520
mind today and he's like no i'd still

1633
00:55:39,520 --> 00:55:41,599
stand by i really wanted to take him

1634
00:55:41,599 --> 00:55:44,240
really come on it's your chance to make

1635
00:55:44,240 --> 00:55:45,200
it right

1636
00:55:45,200 --> 00:55:48,240
but you know um but i mean

1637
00:55:48,240 --> 00:55:50,160
really i mean it's crazy reviews for

1638
00:55:50,160 --> 00:55:51,359
this record and

1639
00:55:51,359 --> 00:55:54,240
how are we on time oh all right let's

1640
00:55:54,240 --> 00:55:55,440
let us switch tapes before i ask another

1641
00:55:55,440 --> 00:55:57,599
question

1642
00:55:57,599 --> 00:56:00,960
a while and i'm really intrigued by

1643
00:56:00,960 --> 00:56:02,960
it's appropriate use i mean basically

1644
00:56:02,960 --> 00:56:04,240
it's

1645
00:56:04,240 --> 00:56:07,119
you're getting a sense of the character

1646
00:56:07,119 --> 00:56:08,240
of this person

1647
00:56:08,240 --> 00:56:10,880
by the you know the sum of all the parts

1648
00:56:10,880 --> 00:56:11,359
right

1649
00:56:11,359 --> 00:56:12,640
and that's kind of an interesting

1650
00:56:12,640 --> 00:56:14,960
thought it's like if the person

1651
00:56:14,960 --> 00:56:18,000
is only giving us a little snippet

1652
00:56:18,000 --> 00:56:21,280
each time and they can actually have a

1653
00:56:21,280 --> 00:56:24,319
consistent voice a novel then it becomes

1654
00:56:24,319 --> 00:56:25,119
exactly so

1655
00:56:25,119 --> 00:56:27,119
there's a there's a thing there that you

1656
00:56:27,119 --> 00:56:28,880
know it's being made into a feature film

1657
00:56:28,880 --> 00:56:30,720
it's a book too it's a memoir oh i had

1658
00:56:30,720 --> 00:56:33,440
no idea they just they just saw that

1659
00:56:33,440 --> 00:56:36,480
two weeks ago that's so wrong it's the

1660
00:56:36,480 --> 00:56:38,240
medium it's like waiting for the next

1661
00:56:38,240 --> 00:56:39,920
piece that's what's part of the love of

1662
00:56:39,920 --> 00:56:40,640
it you know yeah

1663
00:56:40,640 --> 00:56:43,280
but unfortunately a lot of times they

1664
00:56:43,280 --> 00:56:46,400
just don't see that you know i mean

1665
00:56:46,400 --> 00:56:47,680
well because sweets don't sell and

1666
00:56:47,680 --> 00:56:49,200
ticket sales or movie theaters are 20

1667
00:56:49,200 --> 00:56:50,640
bucks a piece so it makes a lot of sense

1668
00:56:50,640 --> 00:56:52,400
to do that

1669
00:56:52,400 --> 00:56:53,520
you were going to ask me a question

1670
00:56:53,520 --> 00:56:55,040
about something and i now completely

1671
00:56:55,040 --> 00:56:57,200
forgot what it was

1672
00:56:57,200 --> 00:56:58,480
do you remember what it was i have no

1673
00:56:58,480 --> 00:57:00,799
idea what do you guys remember

1674
00:57:00,799 --> 00:57:06,000
we finished talking about uh columbus

1675
00:57:06,000 --> 00:57:07,119
we had a question what was the last

1676
00:57:07,119 --> 00:57:08,720
thing we've done and then we stopped the

1677
00:57:08,720 --> 00:57:10,880
last thing was at 53 minutes so around

1678
00:57:10,880 --> 00:57:12,400
like 50 seconds before we turn the tape

1679
00:57:12,400 --> 00:57:14,079
off and it was uh

1680
00:57:14,079 --> 00:57:16,079
quote in my words the magic of seeing

1681
00:57:16,079 --> 00:57:17,680
prolific performances

1682
00:57:17,680 --> 00:57:19,680
uh but they were at the same time more

1683
00:57:19,680 --> 00:57:21,359
about fun

1684
00:57:21,359 --> 00:57:23,440
and that's what kicked out that's when i

1685
00:57:23,440 --> 00:57:24,640
kicked out okay well

1686
00:57:24,640 --> 00:57:26,160
uh it'll probably either come to me or

1687
00:57:26,160 --> 00:57:27,520
maybe this is well let's just let's just

1688
00:57:27,520 --> 00:57:28,480
continue on

1689
00:57:28,480 --> 00:57:30,319
and uh are you guys crushed for time you

1690
00:57:30,319 --> 00:57:31,599
gotta go see terry

1691
00:57:31,599 --> 00:57:34,480
what's happening okay oh and we already

1692
00:57:34,480 --> 00:57:35,760
ate lunch i have to

1693
00:57:35,760 --> 00:57:38,000
uh i have to stop at about 3 30 because

1694
00:57:38,000 --> 00:57:41,040
i gotta oh

1695
00:57:41,040 --> 00:57:44,960
um let's talk about uh

1696
00:57:45,440 --> 00:57:48,720
the way it ended for me yeah

1697
00:57:48,720 --> 00:57:50,880
horrible i know but it hadn't ended

1698
00:57:50,880 --> 00:57:52,480
horrible for a bunch of people at that

1699
00:57:52,480 --> 00:57:53,359
point i mean

1700
00:57:53,359 --> 00:57:54,960
everything i'm i've definitely heard

1701
00:57:54,960 --> 00:57:56,880
i've heard horrible things about the way

1702
00:57:56,880 --> 00:57:57,680
to let go of

1703
00:57:57,680 --> 00:57:59,760
jespersen as well now don't forget bob i

1704
00:57:59,760 --> 00:58:01,280
mean um

1705
00:58:01,280 --> 00:58:03,520
so how did it tell us about your um it

1706
00:58:03,520 --> 00:58:04,880
was jespersen who

1707
00:58:04,880 --> 00:58:08,480
said we won't need you anymore

1708
00:58:08,480 --> 00:58:12,240
when was this this was december

1709
00:58:12,319 --> 00:58:15,200
something 24 some somewhere we played a

1710
00:58:15,200 --> 00:58:16,559
show at first avenue was my last

1711
00:58:16,559 --> 00:58:18,000
performance with them was december of

1712
00:58:18,000 --> 00:58:20,000
84.

1713
00:58:20,000 --> 00:58:23,440
and i had

1714
00:58:23,440 --> 00:58:26,720
i wasn't close to the band uh

1715
00:58:26,720 --> 00:58:28,400
i wasn't their friend from high school

1716
00:58:28,400 --> 00:58:29,920
or whatever and i wasn't

1717
00:58:29,920 --> 00:58:33,359
as a i wasn't a trusted uh confidante of

1718
00:58:33,359 --> 00:58:35,119
paul's or anybody so i was pretty close

1719
00:58:35,119 --> 00:58:36,079
to chris

1720
00:58:36,079 --> 00:58:39,280
um tommy was a young guy and he i'm

1721
00:58:39,280 --> 00:58:42,079
sorry that's right the answer machine

1722
00:58:42,079 --> 00:58:42,559
got that

1723
00:58:42,559 --> 00:58:44,319
uh it will but it'll rain several times

1724
00:58:44,319 --> 00:58:46,079
i'll wait until it's done

1725
00:58:46,079 --> 00:58:48,839
let it just uh sorry five minutes of

1726
00:58:48,839 --> 00:58:50,559
rolling

1727
00:58:50,559 --> 00:58:52,880
so my relationship with them was not

1728
00:58:52,880 --> 00:58:53,680
super close

1729
00:58:53,680 --> 00:58:58,000
uh i was pretty close to chris and

1730
00:58:58,000 --> 00:59:01,440
uh tommy was a young guy and an angry

1731
00:59:01,440 --> 00:59:02,720
young guy

1732
00:59:02,720 --> 00:59:06,000
you know he was angry with everybody

1733
00:59:06,000 --> 00:59:07,760
um i you know not that i was doing

1734
00:59:07,760 --> 00:59:09,359
anything wrong but you know maybe

1735
00:59:09,359 --> 00:59:12,720
i couldn't do anything right for him um

1736
00:59:12,720 --> 00:59:16,960
and bob was not a scary character but he

1737
00:59:16,960 --> 00:59:17,520
was

1738
00:59:17,520 --> 00:59:20,480
kind of unusual and i didn't necessarily

1739
00:59:20,480 --> 00:59:21,680
connect with him

1740
00:59:21,680 --> 00:59:24,480
um i knew and respected peter a lot

1741
00:59:24,480 --> 00:59:25,280
because he was

1742
00:59:25,280 --> 00:59:28,240
an adult when i was not though we're not

1743
00:59:28,240 --> 00:59:29,839
that far apart in age actually

1744
00:59:29,839 --> 00:59:33,040
um and you know

1745
00:59:33,040 --> 00:59:36,480
it really i really wasn't

1746
00:59:36,480 --> 00:59:38,400
you know connected to them emotionally

1747
00:59:38,400 --> 00:59:40,160
so i really was just a hired hand which

1748
00:59:40,160 --> 00:59:40,480
is

1749
00:59:40,480 --> 00:59:43,760
perfectly acceptable um

1750
00:59:43,760 --> 00:59:45,440
yeah i got i got the notice from peter

1751
00:59:45,440 --> 00:59:47,200
that you know you're done we're gonna

1752
00:59:47,200 --> 00:59:48,480
we've got this guy that we're gonna

1753
00:59:48,480 --> 00:59:49,680
bring in and

1754
00:59:49,680 --> 00:59:51,280
you know he's gonna take over now and

1755
00:59:51,280 --> 00:59:52,880
i'm just like i was really kind of

1756
00:59:52,880 --> 00:59:53,839
devastated

1757
00:59:53,839 --> 00:59:56,319
and it wasn't that i was losing this

1758
00:59:56,319 --> 00:59:58,640
great paying gig

1759
00:59:58,640 --> 01:00:00,559
finally you know during the last parts

1760
01:00:00,559 --> 01:00:01,839
of this year

1761
01:00:01,839 --> 01:00:03,520
i kind of got an idea that this was

1762
01:00:03,520 --> 01:00:05,119
something really big but at the same

1763
01:00:05,119 --> 01:00:06,960
time i still was not really aware it was

1764
01:00:06,960 --> 01:00:07,680
like

1765
01:00:07,680 --> 01:00:08,880
you know when you when you've got a job

1766
01:00:08,880 --> 01:00:10,240
that's paying you great money you think

1767
01:00:10,240 --> 01:00:12,000
it's going to last forever

1768
01:00:12,000 --> 01:00:14,079
and things are never going to get worse

1769
01:00:14,079 --> 01:00:15,280
they're going to get better from here on

1770
01:00:15,280 --> 01:00:16,880
out and of course

1771
01:00:16,880 --> 01:00:18,880
that doesn't ever occur what occurs is

1772
01:00:18,880 --> 01:00:20,160
that you know

1773
01:00:20,160 --> 01:00:22,799
there's a setback or the rug gets pulled

1774
01:00:22,799 --> 01:00:24,160
out from underneath you

1775
01:00:24,160 --> 01:00:27,440
so there was a lot of frustration

1776
01:00:27,440 --> 01:00:30,400
you know and if i had known there there

1777
01:00:30,400 --> 01:00:32,160
was any frustration with my performance

1778
01:00:32,160 --> 01:00:33,680
i definitely would have tried to improve

1779
01:00:33,680 --> 01:00:34,400
that

1780
01:00:34,400 --> 01:00:37,280
honestly i don't know why that why the

1781
01:00:37,280 --> 01:00:38,240
change occurred

1782
01:00:38,240 --> 01:00:41,680
it could have been something from

1783
01:00:41,680 --> 01:00:43,040
the band it could have been something

1784
01:00:43,040 --> 01:00:45,760
from a record label was it when

1785
01:00:45,760 --> 01:00:48,319
was this when they signed the sire there

1786
01:00:48,319 --> 01:00:48,960
was

1787
01:00:48,960 --> 01:00:52,079
uh there was it was near that time frame

1788
01:00:52,079 --> 01:00:53,200
i don't know exactly when the signing

1789
01:00:53,200 --> 01:00:55,440
desire occurred but there was we had you

1790
01:00:55,440 --> 01:00:56,720
know done that whole fall

1791
01:00:56,720 --> 01:00:58,319
in new york and what in the east coast

1792
01:00:58,319 --> 01:00:59,599
trying to make sure that we got in front

1793
01:00:59,599 --> 01:01:01,200
of everybody and

1794
01:01:01,200 --> 01:01:03,440
there could have been you know it's it's

1795
01:01:03,440 --> 01:01:05,119
the classic it happened to me actually

1796
01:01:05,119 --> 01:01:06,799
that kind of story has happened to me

1797
01:01:06,799 --> 01:01:08,480
repeatedly um

1798
01:01:08,480 --> 01:01:10,240
you know hey i got this relationship the

1799
01:01:10,240 --> 01:01:11,839
recording studio let's put a demo

1800
01:01:11,839 --> 01:01:12,319
together

1801
01:01:12,319 --> 01:01:14,880
see what we can do i'll do it on spec or

1802
01:01:14,880 --> 01:01:16,240
i'll do it you know i'll do a reduced

1803
01:01:16,240 --> 01:01:16,559
rate

1804
01:01:16,559 --> 01:01:17,920
the next deal we'll do we'll do a better

1805
01:01:17,920 --> 01:01:19,280
deal and i'll get more out of you or

1806
01:01:19,280 --> 01:01:20,799
whatever and then of course the next

1807
01:01:20,799 --> 01:01:22,160
deal that comes along because of the

1808
01:01:22,160 --> 01:01:25,440
work that was done in the first deal

1809
01:01:25,440 --> 01:01:28,960
the record company the promoter the

1810
01:01:28,960 --> 01:01:30,559
agent the whoever it is says well i've

1811
01:01:30,559 --> 01:01:32,559
got this guy i want you to work with

1812
01:01:32,559 --> 01:01:34,000
you know you can't work with the guy you

1813
01:01:34,000 --> 01:01:36,319
worked with last time so

1814
01:01:36,319 --> 01:01:37,920
that happens repeatedly in the industry

1815
01:01:37,920 --> 01:01:40,160
yeah you can't work for free now to get

1816
01:01:40,160 --> 01:01:41,599
something later because there later

1817
01:01:41,599 --> 01:01:44,319
never comes that's how it goes

1818
01:01:44,319 --> 01:01:45,839
no hard feelings about any of that

1819
01:01:45,839 --> 01:01:47,839
though because it is you know i

1820
01:01:47,839 --> 01:01:49,839
i was given an incredible gift

1821
01:01:49,839 --> 01:01:51,359
unbeknownst to me at the time

1822
01:01:51,359 --> 01:01:53,359
and now i look back and go wow you know

1823
01:01:53,359 --> 01:01:54,640
that's really cool i mean my

1824
01:01:54,640 --> 01:01:57,520
my son is in school telling people that

1825
01:01:57,520 --> 01:01:58,319
you know when he's wearing his

1826
01:01:58,319 --> 01:01:59,920
replacement shirt it's like my dad work

1827
01:01:59,920 --> 01:02:01,039
with this band

1828
01:02:01,039 --> 01:02:02,559
and every all the other kids are wearing

1829
01:02:02,559 --> 01:02:04,240
led zeppelin shirts and it's like

1830
01:02:04,240 --> 01:02:07,039
you know he understands he understands

1831
01:02:07,039 --> 01:02:07,520
did

1832
01:02:07,520 --> 01:02:10,559
were you surprised uh a year later or so

1833
01:02:10,559 --> 01:02:11,520
when you heard that

1834
01:02:11,520 --> 01:02:14,559
bob was tossed in the van i was not at

1835
01:02:14,559 --> 01:02:15,119
all

1836
01:02:15,119 --> 01:02:18,880
because there was friction between bob

1837
01:02:18,880 --> 01:02:19,440
and paul

1838
01:02:19,440 --> 01:02:20,880
there was always friction between bob

1839
01:02:20,880 --> 01:02:22,720
and paul i mean was there was

1840
01:02:22,720 --> 01:02:24,319
was there was there friction that went

1841
01:02:24,319 --> 01:02:25,920
beyond forget the drugs and the alcohol

1842
01:02:25,920 --> 01:02:27,280
was there friction that went beyond that

1843
01:02:27,280 --> 01:02:28,480
i mean was there something else

1844
01:02:28,480 --> 01:02:29,440
musically

1845
01:02:29,440 --> 01:02:31,839
perhaps or the sound of a banner the

1846
01:02:31,839 --> 01:02:33,599
direction of the band

1847
01:02:33,599 --> 01:02:36,720
i won't say sound of the band it could

1848
01:02:36,720 --> 01:02:38,000
be direction of the band

1849
01:02:38,000 --> 01:02:40,799
you know once again bob was about doing

1850
01:02:40,799 --> 01:02:42,400
his own performance

1851
01:02:42,400 --> 01:02:44,160
bob was about i'm going to wear what i

1852
01:02:44,160 --> 01:02:45,359
want to wear i'm going to not wear what

1853
01:02:45,359 --> 01:02:46,480
i'm not going to wear i'm going to do

1854
01:02:46,480 --> 01:02:47,680
what i'm going to do

1855
01:02:47,680 --> 01:02:50,079
and he hits his cues if there were you

1856
01:02:50,079 --> 01:02:51,200
know cues to be had you're going to do

1857
01:02:51,200 --> 01:02:52,480
the solo here he's going to hit that

1858
01:02:52,480 --> 01:02:53,039
stuff

1859
01:02:53,039 --> 01:02:56,480
but he's not ratcheting

1860
01:02:56,480 --> 01:02:58,319
it ratcheting it up and that just is

1861
01:02:58,319 --> 01:02:59,839
because the band is aging

1862
01:02:59,839 --> 01:03:01,680
you know the band is getting older the

1863
01:03:01,680 --> 01:03:03,119
boys are getting older

1864
01:03:03,119 --> 01:03:04,799
they're thinking more about long term

1865
01:03:04,799 --> 01:03:06,079
they can see longer turns into the

1866
01:03:06,079 --> 01:03:06,799
future

1867
01:03:06,799 --> 01:03:08,960
and they can see that you know either on

1868
01:03:08,960 --> 01:03:10,640
a path of destruction or on a path to

1869
01:03:10,640 --> 01:03:12,640
glory or on a path to success or freedom

1870
01:03:12,640 --> 01:03:14,839
or whatever we're on a path for

1871
01:03:14,839 --> 01:03:18,160
and in order for me to you know

1872
01:03:18,160 --> 01:03:19,680
completely speaking out of turn here in

1873
01:03:19,680 --> 01:03:21,839
order for me to further myself

1874
01:03:21,839 --> 01:03:23,200
i need to surround myself with people

1875
01:03:23,200 --> 01:03:25,039
who want to go down that same path

1876
01:03:25,039 --> 01:03:27,599
and i can see that i could see early on

1877
01:03:27,599 --> 01:03:28,559
that

1878
01:03:28,559 --> 01:03:30,480
there wasn't the clash of the wills and

1879
01:03:30,480 --> 01:03:32,079
direction or control of the band it was

1880
01:03:32,079 --> 01:03:34,240
more on

1881
01:03:34,240 --> 01:03:37,599
you just want to do your own thing and

1882
01:03:37,599 --> 01:03:40,400
we can't each do our own thing together

1883
01:03:40,400 --> 01:03:41,680
not that that gets the answer you're

1884
01:03:41,680 --> 01:03:43,039
looking for but that's kind of what i

1885
01:03:43,039 --> 01:03:43,440
saw

1886
01:03:43,440 --> 01:03:47,760
early early on was was there

1887
01:03:47,760 --> 01:03:51,039
was there uh much conflict in terms

1888
01:03:51,039 --> 01:03:53,200
of i mean you hear a lot of about the

1889
01:03:53,200 --> 01:03:54,240
conflict where like

1890
01:03:54,240 --> 01:03:56,880
paul liked doing the ballots the

1891
01:03:56,880 --> 01:03:58,480
answering machines and so are they

1892
01:03:58,480 --> 01:04:00,960
and the rest of the band usually would

1893
01:04:00,960 --> 01:04:02,400
pick on them because of it and because

1894
01:04:02,400 --> 01:04:03,359
they you know bob

1895
01:04:03,359 --> 01:04:04,640
obviously wanted to be doing dose of

1896
01:04:04,640 --> 01:04:07,039
thunder

1897
01:04:10,640 --> 01:04:13,760
i think that there there was some

1898
01:04:13,760 --> 01:04:14,960
friction there because of that i mean

1899
01:04:14,960 --> 01:04:16,400
they're a rock and roll band so let's

1900
01:04:16,400 --> 01:04:17,760
play rock and roll

1901
01:04:17,760 --> 01:04:19,520
and you know we don't want to be journey

1902
01:04:19,520 --> 01:04:21,039
and do these beautiful ballads what the

1903
01:04:21,039 --> 01:04:22,960
hell that's not what we're doing right

1904
01:04:22,960 --> 01:04:24,400
the yeah of course there's friction

1905
01:04:24,400 --> 01:04:27,680
because of that um

1906
01:04:27,680 --> 01:04:30,319
there is a lot to be said for what

1907
01:04:30,319 --> 01:04:31,359
actually occurred

1908
01:04:31,359 --> 01:04:34,319
outside of the performance meaning what

1909
01:04:34,319 --> 01:04:35,359
was recorded

1910
01:04:35,359 --> 01:04:38,079
you know if a recording occurred where

1911
01:04:38,079 --> 01:04:38,880
you know

1912
01:04:38,880 --> 01:04:42,240
it's paul playing all the guitars and

1913
01:04:42,240 --> 01:04:43,280
you know answering machine's a great

1914
01:04:43,280 --> 01:04:44,640
example you know just playing guitars

1915
01:04:44,640 --> 01:04:46,319
and singing the song

1916
01:04:46,319 --> 01:04:48,799
what's the man doing right it isn't us

1917
01:04:48,799 --> 01:04:50,000
it's you

1918
01:04:50,000 --> 01:04:51,520
and of course that you know when they're

1919
01:04:51,520 --> 01:04:53,280
young and their egos are fragile

1920
01:04:53,280 --> 01:04:55,680
that really becomes a big problem and it

1921
01:04:55,680 --> 01:04:57,359
can accelerate really quickly you hurt

1922
01:04:57,359 --> 01:04:58,559
my feelings i'm not going to say you

1923
01:04:58,559 --> 01:04:59,680
hurt my feelings what i'm going to do is

1924
01:04:59,680 --> 01:05:02,640
i'm just going to be obnoxious on stage

1925
01:05:02,640 --> 01:05:05,039
were they underwriting musicians i'm

1926
01:05:05,039 --> 01:05:06,480
sorry were they underrated

1927
01:05:06,480 --> 01:05:09,440
underrated was tommy a better bass

1928
01:05:09,440 --> 01:05:10,960
player than probably people thought or

1929
01:05:10,960 --> 01:05:15,520
any it's in down the line uh

1930
01:05:16,960 --> 01:05:19,359
i think that they were underrated

1931
01:05:19,359 --> 01:05:20,880
musicians only because people

1932
01:05:20,880 --> 01:05:22,480
didn't see them perform as well as they

1933
01:05:22,480 --> 01:05:24,400
could if they were

1934
01:05:24,400 --> 01:05:25,440
you know if they were just going to sit

1935
01:05:25,440 --> 01:05:27,280
down and actually play and not be

1936
01:05:27,280 --> 01:05:28,000
hammered

1937
01:05:28,000 --> 01:05:30,799
yeah they're incredible you know chris

1938
01:05:30,799 --> 01:05:32,240
has a lot of energy and

1939
01:05:32,240 --> 01:05:36,720
you know it's like anything if you try

1940
01:05:36,720 --> 01:05:38,079
it's gonna be better than if you don't

1941
01:05:38,079 --> 01:05:39,599
try right right right if you hit the

1942
01:05:39,599 --> 01:05:40,240
drums

1943
01:05:40,240 --> 01:05:43,200
versus letting the drums be hit and

1944
01:05:43,200 --> 01:05:44,400
that's really what it comes down to if

1945
01:05:44,400 --> 01:05:45,839
you're gonna sing open your mouth if

1946
01:05:45,839 --> 01:05:46,480
you're gonna

1947
01:05:46,480 --> 01:05:48,559
strum the guitar make sure that people

1948
01:05:48,559 --> 01:05:49,520
can hear that you're strumming the

1949
01:05:49,520 --> 01:05:50,400
guitar

1950
01:05:50,400 --> 01:05:52,480
and and that's where you know once

1951
01:05:52,480 --> 01:05:53,520
they're

1952
01:05:53,520 --> 01:05:56,559
once substance got into the

1953
01:05:56,559 --> 01:05:58,640
mix then of course it was we're you know

1954
01:05:58,640 --> 01:06:00,000
we know we can do this without even

1955
01:06:00,000 --> 01:06:01,440
thinking about it we're just having fun

1956
01:06:01,440 --> 01:06:03,200
doing what we're doing

1957
01:06:03,200 --> 01:06:05,200
when he was trying how good a guitar

1958
01:06:05,200 --> 01:06:08,079
player was bob simpson

1959
01:06:11,599 --> 01:06:13,839
um

1960
01:06:15,359 --> 01:06:16,960
i can't compare him to other guitar

1961
01:06:16,960 --> 01:06:18,559
players i'm not a guitar player myself

1962
01:06:18,559 --> 01:06:19,520
so i don't know

1963
01:06:19,520 --> 01:06:22,319
you know his chops i would say that his

1964
01:06:22,319 --> 01:06:23,520
consistency

1965
01:06:23,520 --> 01:06:26,559
was amazing and that's

1966
01:06:26,559 --> 01:06:27,920
you know that's a lot to be said for

1967
01:06:27,920 --> 01:06:30,160
somebody because if you

1968
01:06:30,160 --> 01:06:32,640
are very affluent in whatever your

1969
01:06:32,640 --> 01:06:33,920
particular instrument might be or

1970
01:06:33,920 --> 01:06:35,119
whatever your particular discipline

1971
01:06:35,119 --> 01:06:35,839
might be

1972
01:06:35,839 --> 01:06:38,319
you explore the other pieces of that

1973
01:06:38,319 --> 01:06:39,440
discipline in order to

1974
01:06:39,440 --> 01:06:41,920
to be self-satisfied you know if you're

1975
01:06:41,920 --> 01:06:42,880
gonna

1976
01:06:42,880 --> 01:06:43,920
you know if you're writing a story

1977
01:06:43,920 --> 01:06:45,039
you're gonna write from the first person

1978
01:06:45,039 --> 01:06:46,400
third person if you're

1979
01:06:46,400 --> 01:06:47,440
you know painting you're going to use

1980
01:06:47,440 --> 01:06:49,119
acrylics and you're going to use oils if

1981
01:06:49,119 --> 01:06:50,079
you're writing

1982
01:06:50,079 --> 01:06:52,720
you know writing a song first you're

1983
01:06:52,720 --> 01:06:54,480
going to try something in a rockabilly

1984
01:06:54,480 --> 01:06:55,280
style and then you're going to try

1985
01:06:55,280 --> 01:06:56,160
something in

1986
01:06:56,160 --> 01:06:57,839
you know 404 style whatever it might be

1987
01:06:57,839 --> 01:06:59,359
you're going to change it up

1988
01:06:59,359 --> 01:07:00,880
because you're bored with doing it the

1989
01:07:00,880 --> 01:07:02,480
same way you've done it for the last

1990
01:07:02,480 --> 01:07:04,559
five years or 25 years whatever it might

1991
01:07:04,559 --> 01:07:06,160
be the fact that he could

1992
01:07:06,160 --> 01:07:09,520
hit the same kind of emotion nightly

1993
01:07:09,520 --> 01:07:12,400
was really incredible and the fact that

1994
01:07:12,400 --> 01:07:13,680
he would do it

1995
01:07:13,680 --> 01:07:17,520
intoxicated is also incredible

1996
01:07:17,520 --> 01:07:18,799
you know it's it's and i wouldn't say

1997
01:07:18,799 --> 01:07:20,559
that that you know

1998
01:07:20,559 --> 01:07:23,440
substance equated artistic creative

1999
01:07:23,440 --> 01:07:24,799
creativity

2000
01:07:24,799 --> 01:07:27,359
substance was just a piece of who he was

2001
01:07:27,359 --> 01:07:29,359
right and

2002
01:07:29,359 --> 01:07:31,280
you know that i think he could have done

2003
01:07:31,280 --> 01:07:32,799
just as well and did just as well

2004
01:07:32,799 --> 01:07:34,640
without substance

2005
01:07:34,640 --> 01:07:36,079
or without substance abuse i should say

2006
01:07:36,079 --> 01:07:37,599
because he was out there was obviously a

2007
01:07:37,599 --> 01:07:40,480
lot of emotional substance there

2008
01:07:40,480 --> 01:07:43,280
the band from uh okay you're mexican man

2009
01:07:43,280 --> 01:07:45,200
the band was known for being out of tune

2010
01:07:45,200 --> 01:07:49,200
a lot or tuning

2011
01:07:49,200 --> 01:07:52,400
let's let's talk about i mean tell us

2012
01:07:52,400 --> 01:07:54,240
any interesting tuning stories or lack

2013
01:07:54,240 --> 01:07:56,400
of tuning stories

2014
01:07:56,400 --> 01:08:00,480
um well i think the only reason the band

2015
01:08:00,480 --> 01:08:01,839
was out of tune is because it

2016
01:08:01,839 --> 01:08:03,920
you know just like anything else they

2017
01:08:03,920 --> 01:08:06,000
beat the [ __ ] out of their equipment

2018
01:08:06,000 --> 01:08:08,880
you know it's like we're you know i

2019
01:08:08,880 --> 01:08:10,079
can't hear myself my

2020
01:08:10,079 --> 01:08:11,920
amp doesn't go any louder i got to play

2021
01:08:11,920 --> 01:08:13,359
harder

2022
01:08:13,359 --> 01:08:14,960
you know which of course destroys the

2023
01:08:14,960 --> 01:08:16,799
guitars tuning that's just what happens

2024
01:08:16,799 --> 01:08:20,239
right um so yeah i i'm i don't have any

2025
01:08:20,239 --> 01:08:21,600
incredible tuning stories

2026
01:08:21,600 --> 01:08:24,880
uh you might want to talk to sullivan

2027
01:08:24,880 --> 01:08:26,799
he was on stage more than i was on stage

2028
01:08:26,799 --> 01:08:29,199
so he might be able to go yeah whatever

2029
01:08:29,199 --> 01:08:30,480
there's this story about tuning or

2030
01:08:30,480 --> 01:08:31,120
whatever

2031
01:08:31,120 --> 01:08:34,239
um but paul also you know as as a writer

2032
01:08:34,239 --> 01:08:36,159
he definitely did his own tunings he

2033
01:08:36,159 --> 01:08:37,600
would you know change his tunings in his

2034
01:08:37,600 --> 01:08:39,120
guitars in order to get certain types of

2035
01:08:39,120 --> 01:08:39,839
sounds or

2036
01:08:39,839 --> 01:08:41,040
just you know to play the chords in a

2037
01:08:41,040 --> 01:08:43,120
different way at one point probably it

2038
01:08:43,120 --> 01:08:45,120
was around that chord he started

2039
01:08:45,120 --> 01:08:47,040
discovering the open tuning yes he would

2040
01:08:47,040 --> 01:08:48,480
do did a lot of open tunings

2041
01:08:48,480 --> 01:08:52,560
yeah which of course for somebody who's

2042
01:08:52,560 --> 01:08:55,600
a musician and uh what might be

2043
01:08:55,600 --> 01:08:57,679
back up paul is probably a musician's

2044
01:08:57,679 --> 01:09:00,000
musician more than he's

2045
01:09:00,000 --> 01:09:03,440
a performer for the general audience

2046
01:09:03,440 --> 01:09:06,239
and and i'm a big fan of daniel noir and

2047
01:09:06,239 --> 01:09:08,000
he's a musician's musician also and i

2048
01:09:08,000 --> 01:09:09,759
you know watching him play guitar

2049
01:09:09,759 --> 01:09:13,440
is wonderful um you know he's got

2050
01:09:13,440 --> 01:09:16,799
a very strong gift of doing sustained

2051
01:09:16,799 --> 01:09:21,759
long melodies and big open sounds

2052
01:09:21,759 --> 01:09:23,199
i don't know where paul picked that up

2053
01:09:23,199 --> 01:09:24,560
where he picked up open tuning and where

2054
01:09:24,560 --> 01:09:25,759
he decided that he was going to change

2055
01:09:25,759 --> 01:09:26,560
up how he was

2056
01:09:26,560 --> 01:09:29,839
delivering but his

2057
01:09:29,839 --> 01:09:32,400
when he did that musicians in the

2058
01:09:32,400 --> 01:09:34,000
audience are like oh wow i want to

2059
01:09:34,000 --> 01:09:35,520
see what's going on here of course

2060
01:09:35,520 --> 01:09:38,319
trying to see that through the chaos of

2061
01:09:38,319 --> 01:09:40,799
fast performance and see that through

2062
01:09:40,799 --> 01:09:42,799
the chaos of substances and

2063
01:09:42,799 --> 01:09:44,880
drugs and alcohol and all the craziness

2064
01:09:44,880 --> 01:09:46,159
that's going on

2065
01:09:46,159 --> 01:09:47,759
so there was that artistic component in

2066
01:09:47,759 --> 01:09:49,359
there or that self-creative component

2067
01:09:49,359 --> 01:09:49,839
that was

2068
01:09:49,839 --> 01:09:53,199
mixed on top of or mixed underneath

2069
01:09:53,199 --> 01:09:55,679
chaos

2070
01:09:57,360 --> 01:09:59,920
one of the people one of the groups that

2071
01:09:59,920 --> 01:10:01,199
we actually talked to was this

2072
01:10:01,199 --> 01:10:03,440
girl band called the bristols i'm not

2073
01:10:03,440 --> 01:10:05,920
familiar i'm sorry not for me

2074
01:10:05,920 --> 01:10:07,120
at the time because i know they toured

2075
01:10:07,120 --> 01:10:09,040
with the band a lot okay

2076
01:10:09,040 --> 01:10:11,360
did they give you a time frame i thought

2077
01:10:11,360 --> 01:10:12,880
it was

2078
01:10:12,880 --> 01:10:15,199
around let it be but it might have been

2079
01:10:15,199 --> 01:10:16,400
an early

2080
01:10:16,400 --> 01:10:18,400
pre-let it be okay uh because i know

2081
01:10:18,400 --> 01:10:19,760
they did a bunch of tours in them

2082
01:10:19,760 --> 01:10:21,520
and uh i just didn't know if you would

2083
01:10:21,520 --> 01:10:23,440
have any no okay i didn't know if that

2084
01:10:23,440 --> 01:10:25,040
was that was in your period

2085
01:10:25,040 --> 01:10:28,880
um were there any

2086
01:10:28,880 --> 01:10:32,880
were there how did the replacements get

2087
01:10:32,880 --> 01:10:34,960
along with the bands that either opened

2088
01:10:34,960 --> 01:10:37,520
or they opened four

2089
01:10:37,520 --> 01:10:42,640
um that they opened for

2090
01:10:42,960 --> 01:10:45,120
well we when i was working with them we

2091
01:10:45,120 --> 01:10:47,840
did an extensive run with x and we did

2092
01:10:47,840 --> 01:10:50,960
a few coincidental

2093
01:10:50,960 --> 01:10:54,640
events with rem and once again that's

2094
01:10:54,640 --> 01:10:56,719
kind of a musician's musician's

2095
01:10:56,719 --> 01:10:59,600
really relationship there right and as i

2096
01:10:59,600 --> 01:11:01,280
mentioned before you know

2097
01:11:01,280 --> 01:11:03,440
watching them on stage watching xzine

2098
01:11:03,440 --> 01:11:04,400
and john doe

2099
01:11:04,400 --> 01:11:07,600
and watching them on stage together

2100
01:11:07,600 --> 01:11:09,280
and it's a small club with the stage is

2101
01:11:09,280 --> 01:11:10,880
barely bigger than this table

2102
01:11:10,880 --> 01:11:14,159
is just that's what i live for i want to

2103
01:11:14,159 --> 01:11:15,360
see that

2104
01:11:15,360 --> 01:11:17,280
um so there was a lot of respect that

2105
01:11:17,280 --> 01:11:18,960
went each way there you know i think

2106
01:11:18,960 --> 01:11:21,120
that

2107
01:11:21,120 --> 01:11:23,199
more successful bands you know if you're

2108
01:11:23,199 --> 01:11:24,239
opening for somebody you're probably

2109
01:11:24,239 --> 01:11:25,600
working with who's more successful than

2110
01:11:25,600 --> 01:11:26,480
you are

2111
01:11:26,480 --> 01:11:28,960
they looked upon the replacements as

2112
01:11:28,960 --> 01:11:30,640
these guys are

2113
01:11:30,640 --> 01:11:33,679
doing they're they're doing what they

2114
01:11:33,679 --> 01:11:34,960
want to do

2115
01:11:34,960 --> 01:11:36,719
they have no path they're boundless

2116
01:11:36,719 --> 01:11:38,320
they're going wherever they want to go

2117
01:11:38,320 --> 01:11:41,120
and they're doing what they want to do

2118
01:11:41,120 --> 01:11:42,800
did we make a mistake by deciding we're

2119
01:11:42,800 --> 01:11:43,520
going to kind of

2120
01:11:43,520 --> 01:11:45,440
do this straight up and actually deliver

2121
01:11:45,440 --> 01:11:46,800
the same performance every night with a

2122
01:11:46,800 --> 01:11:48,719
fixed set list

2123
01:11:48,719 --> 01:11:49,920
not that they're not that these bands

2124
01:11:49,920 --> 01:11:50,880
are second guessing themselves because

2125
01:11:50,880 --> 01:11:52,320
they have their success in their own way

2126
01:11:52,320 --> 01:11:55,199
right there was respect from the

2127
01:11:55,199 --> 01:11:56,320
headlining acts

2128
01:11:56,320 --> 01:11:59,360
towards the band because of that no

2129
01:11:59,360 --> 01:12:00,880
holds barred rock and roll because i

2130
01:12:00,880 --> 01:12:01,199
know

2131
01:12:01,199 --> 01:12:03,679
both axine and john doe were big fans

2132
01:12:03,679 --> 01:12:04,719
and then there was a

2133
01:12:04,719 --> 01:12:08,080
an article uh where they were uh

2134
01:12:08,080 --> 01:12:10,960
did was it spin it was uh in matter

2135
01:12:10,960 --> 01:12:11,760
magazine

2136
01:12:11,760 --> 01:12:14,480
it was uh people of the year trying to

2137
01:12:14,480 --> 01:12:15,520
picking like who they

2138
01:12:15,520 --> 01:12:17,440
was their favorite and both of them

2139
01:12:17,440 --> 01:12:18,719
picked replacements

2140
01:12:18,719 --> 01:12:20,400
yeah in peace and which i thought was

2141
01:12:20,400 --> 01:12:21,199
really nice they were trying to get a

2142
01:12:21,199 --> 01:12:22,640
hold of them before when we go out to la

2143
01:12:22,640 --> 01:12:23,199
okay

2144
01:12:23,199 --> 01:12:27,679
um then okay rem rem obviously

2145
01:12:27,679 --> 01:12:29,040
had a connection with this band i mean

2146
01:12:29,040 --> 01:12:30,239
because i mean the first time i said

2147
01:12:30,239 --> 01:12:31,360
replacements they were opening for

2148
01:12:31,360 --> 01:12:32,400
ariema toads

2149
01:12:32,400 --> 01:12:34,719
okay in new haven um which was probably

2150
01:12:34,719 --> 01:12:36,400
83 but i was wearing a dress

2151
01:12:36,400 --> 01:12:39,679
um and uh

2152
01:12:39,679 --> 01:12:42,239
the loudest most obnoxious band i've

2153
01:12:42,239 --> 01:12:44,000
ever seen in my life i had no idea what

2154
01:12:44,000 --> 01:12:44,960
i was saying you have no idea what

2155
01:12:44,960 --> 01:12:45,840
you're saying and you went there to see

2156
01:12:45,840 --> 01:12:46,640
ram yeah

2157
01:12:46,640 --> 01:12:48,000
okay yeah and we were literally up

2158
01:12:48,000 --> 01:12:49,360
against do you remember you remember

2159
01:12:49,360 --> 01:12:50,159
toads

2160
01:12:50,159 --> 01:12:53,520
i have i've the most recent memory of

2161
01:12:53,520 --> 01:12:55,120
toads is that it was closed

2162
01:12:55,120 --> 01:12:56,960
because i was there on a monday and they

2163
01:12:56,960 --> 01:12:58,560
are not open one days um

2164
01:12:58,560 --> 01:13:01,199
because i was there in the uh early the

2165
01:13:01,199 --> 01:13:02,480
early decade

2166
01:13:02,480 --> 01:13:05,520
to for my for business um i haven't been

2167
01:13:05,520 --> 01:13:06,320
to toads for

2168
01:13:06,320 --> 01:13:07,920
since then for 20 something years so the

2169
01:13:07,920 --> 01:13:09,440
stage probably comes to about here but

2170
01:13:09,440 --> 01:13:11,280
we were literally

2171
01:13:11,280 --> 01:13:12,880
pressed against the stage against stage

2172
01:13:12,880 --> 01:13:14,560
and you know this yeah

2173
01:13:14,560 --> 01:13:15,920
and that was already it was an early

2174
01:13:15,920 --> 01:13:18,480
tour so it's probably around

2175
01:13:18,480 --> 01:13:21,920
right after murmur came out okay so um

2176
01:13:21,920 --> 01:13:23,440
you know and this this band comes out

2177
01:13:23,440 --> 01:13:26,000
and i just i i

2178
01:13:26,000 --> 01:13:28,000
don't think i fully appreciated what i

2179
01:13:28,000 --> 01:13:29,920
was seeing it was just it was literally

2180
01:13:29,920 --> 01:13:30,560
just

2181
01:13:30,560 --> 01:13:34,640
so unbearably loud and unbearably

2182
01:13:34,640 --> 01:13:36,560
it was just this like it was just i mean

2183
01:13:36,560 --> 01:13:38,239
you're here's the rem which is such like

2184
01:13:38,239 --> 01:13:39,600
jingly and pretty and

2185
01:13:39,600 --> 01:13:42,719
you know roger win kind of guitars right

2186
01:13:42,719 --> 01:13:44,960
and it was it was just it was just noise

2187
01:13:44,960 --> 01:13:46,080
and drunkenness and

2188
01:13:46,080 --> 01:13:49,520
and yeah it was like well and i don't

2189
01:13:49,520 --> 01:13:52,480
so that's the problem with there's too

2190
01:13:52,480 --> 01:13:53,840
many bands and not enough clubs or

2191
01:13:53,840 --> 01:13:54,480
whatever the

2192
01:13:54,480 --> 01:13:55,679
the problem is is that there's just

2193
01:13:55,679 --> 01:13:57,520
there's not enough exposure for a lot of

2194
01:13:57,520 --> 01:13:58,239
bands

2195
01:13:58,239 --> 01:14:00,560
in any case you know who do you who do

2196
01:14:00,560 --> 01:14:02,080
you pair up with ram or who do you pair

2197
01:14:02,080 --> 01:14:03,520
with replacements because they

2198
01:14:03,520 --> 01:14:05,679
as much as they're both popular college

2199
01:14:05,679 --> 01:14:06,800
bands and they both got albums in the

2200
01:14:06,800 --> 01:14:07,679
charts

2201
01:14:07,679 --> 01:14:08,800
that doesn't mean that they go well

2202
01:14:08,800 --> 01:14:10,719
together right right and

2203
01:14:10,719 --> 01:14:13,840
you know when i was

2204
01:14:13,840 --> 01:14:15,360
very young and i went to see concerts

2205
01:14:15,360 --> 01:14:16,640
it's like i just didn't even want to see

2206
01:14:16,640 --> 01:14:17,840
the opening acts i didn't want to be

2207
01:14:17,840 --> 01:14:19,280
exposed to that because i came to see

2208
01:14:19,280 --> 01:14:22,159
this thing over here so sometimes the

2209
01:14:22,159 --> 01:14:22,880
opening act

2210
01:14:22,880 --> 01:14:24,719
really surprises you totally definitely

2211
01:14:24,719 --> 01:14:26,000
let's go this way i'm not doing a

2212
01:14:26,000 --> 01:14:27,040
documentary on rem

2213
01:14:27,040 --> 01:14:28,960
you know it's like you're right you know

2214
01:14:28,960 --> 01:14:30,960
right 27 years later that you know

2215
01:14:30,960 --> 01:14:34,080
there is there is that and you know

2216
01:14:34,080 --> 01:14:35,920
from a consumer's point of view i would

2217
01:14:35,920 --> 01:14:37,679
say that it might be difficult for them

2218
01:14:37,679 --> 01:14:38,000
to

2219
01:14:38,000 --> 01:14:40,960
be an opening act because they aren't

2220
01:14:40,960 --> 01:14:42,239
they aren't glossy

2221
01:14:42,239 --> 01:14:45,440
yeah it's very gritty it's very edged

2222
01:14:45,440 --> 01:14:48,800
it's sometimes even painful or

2223
01:14:48,800 --> 01:14:50,560
embarrassing to watch if you're

2224
01:14:50,560 --> 01:14:52,000
expecting to see something and you see

2225
01:14:52,000 --> 01:14:53,760
something completely different it's like

2226
01:14:53,760 --> 01:14:55,760
what is this guy doing on stage in

2227
01:14:55,760 --> 01:14:57,600
address yeah

2228
01:14:57,600 --> 01:15:00,400
um so so then you know then move it down

2229
01:15:00,400 --> 01:15:00,960
the road

2230
01:15:00,960 --> 01:15:02,719
another year in in trenton and you've

2231
01:15:02,719 --> 01:15:04,480
got you know the butthole surfer is

2232
01:15:04,480 --> 01:15:05,280
opening up

2233
01:15:05,280 --> 01:15:07,440
and you know that looks completely

2234
01:15:07,440 --> 01:15:09,199
chaotic compared to

2235
01:15:09,199 --> 01:15:11,360
this professional man the replacements

2236
01:15:11,360 --> 01:15:12,800
you know it's yeah

2237
01:15:12,800 --> 01:15:15,920
i remember i saw uh my god

2238
01:15:15,920 --> 01:15:18,159
uh uncle tupelo opened for someone at

2239
01:15:18,159 --> 01:15:19,199
toads

2240
01:15:19,199 --> 01:15:21,280
and it was for to play it was true yeah

2241
01:15:21,280 --> 01:15:24,640
and 87 it would have been 87.88

2242
01:15:24,640 --> 01:15:27,760
nine was it it was the 89 88 or 89 so

2243
01:15:27,760 --> 01:15:28,800
was that last show with through

2244
01:15:28,800 --> 01:15:31,920
toads okay and um

2245
01:15:31,920 --> 01:15:33,600
uncle tubal came out and they were

2246
01:15:33,600 --> 01:15:35,679
basically what the replacements were

2247
01:15:35,679 --> 01:15:38,159
when i saw ram open this hardcore

2248
01:15:38,159 --> 01:15:39,360
sounding band

2249
01:15:39,360 --> 01:15:41,520
no joke but one of the hardest punk

2250
01:15:41,520 --> 01:15:43,360
bands i had ever seen

2251
01:15:43,360 --> 01:15:44,640
and then i go and buy the record i was

2252
01:15:44,640 --> 01:15:47,040
like it's pretty what the [ __ ] is this

2253
01:15:47,040 --> 01:15:48,560
i literally i bought the record thinking

2254
01:15:48,560 --> 01:15:50,080
i think i called you up i said

2255
01:15:50,080 --> 01:15:52,000
is this the same man we saw i mean it's

2256
01:15:52,000 --> 01:15:53,440
like we were there right i wasn't that

2257
01:15:53,440 --> 01:15:54,880
i'd seen them

2258
01:15:54,880 --> 01:15:56,480
i think that like actually was like i'm

2259
01:15:56,480 --> 01:15:58,560
like who is it it was like it was like

2260
01:15:58,560 --> 01:15:59,760
complete

2261
01:15:59,760 --> 01:16:01,760
well okay so that was a perfect example

2262
01:16:01,760 --> 01:16:04,320
of the complete opposite of life

2263
01:16:04,320 --> 01:16:06,800
right what are you expecting yeah i mean

2264
01:16:06,800 --> 01:16:07,679
and that's kind of

2265
01:16:07,679 --> 01:16:10,800
part of you know whether the energy was

2266
01:16:10,800 --> 01:16:11,920
on the record or not

2267
01:16:11,920 --> 01:16:13,600
yeah um well let's just say that the

2268
01:16:13,600 --> 01:16:14,719
energy was on the record for the

2269
01:16:14,719 --> 01:16:15,440
replacements

2270
01:16:15,440 --> 01:16:17,760
they could definitely mimic that yeah

2271
01:16:17,760 --> 01:16:19,360
they could mimic it or they had the same

2272
01:16:19,360 --> 01:16:20,960
energy live because it was nearly almost

2273
01:16:20,960 --> 01:16:22,480
recorded live

2274
01:16:22,480 --> 01:16:24,719
um and then from the opposite

2275
01:16:24,719 --> 01:16:26,400
perspective of when i see a band that's

2276
01:16:26,400 --> 01:16:28,800
highly produced and i'm a huge pop fan i

2277
01:16:28,800 --> 01:16:30,159
love highly produced music

2278
01:16:30,159 --> 01:16:33,199
when i see a produced band live i'm

2279
01:16:33,199 --> 01:16:35,840
expecting it to be kind of subdued or

2280
01:16:35,840 --> 01:16:37,040
less than

2281
01:16:37,040 --> 01:16:38,640
the performance this was one right i

2282
01:16:38,640 --> 01:16:40,159
didn't really know about uncle two below

2283
01:16:40,159 --> 01:16:41,360
much and that you know and

2284
01:16:41,360 --> 01:16:43,840
and there was such a rocking band and

2285
01:16:43,840 --> 01:16:44,400
then i go

2286
01:16:44,400 --> 01:16:46,719
the first album is so mellow it sounds

2287
01:16:46,719 --> 01:16:48,239
you know it's so

2288
01:16:48,239 --> 01:16:50,880
country and it was just it was just like

2289
01:16:50,880 --> 01:16:51,760
i it just

2290
01:16:51,760 --> 01:16:54,080
i i literally and so i so i i completely

2291
01:16:54,080 --> 01:16:55,600
skipped over the next uncle tuple

2292
01:16:55,600 --> 01:16:57,040
because i this was not anything that i

2293
01:16:57,040 --> 01:16:58,000
thought i'd be interested in of course

2294
01:16:58,000 --> 01:16:59,679
then when wilco comes out i fall in love

2295
01:16:59,679 --> 01:17:00,800
with wilco but

2296
01:17:00,800 --> 01:17:03,440
you know but um i think it's it's a lot

2297
01:17:03,440 --> 01:17:04,239
i mean

2298
01:17:04,239 --> 01:17:08,080
that first that first uh

2299
01:17:08,080 --> 01:17:09,199
the first time you see someone first

2300
01:17:09,199 --> 01:17:10,640
time you hear someone really does stick

2301
01:17:10,640 --> 01:17:11,199
with you

2302
01:17:11,199 --> 01:17:12,960
mm-hmm you know and which i think is it

2303
01:17:12,960 --> 01:17:14,000
was always funny for me because like

2304
01:17:14,000 --> 01:17:15,440
that first time i saw replacements i

2305
01:17:15,440 --> 01:17:16,000
really just

2306
01:17:16,000 --> 01:17:17,920
they did not we're not my cup of tea

2307
01:17:17,920 --> 01:17:19,520
well and that goes back to my first show

2308
01:17:19,520 --> 01:17:22,320
at duffy's it's like i was more engaged

2309
01:17:22,320 --> 01:17:23,920
with what i was doing and trying to pick

2310
01:17:23,920 --> 01:17:24,640
out

2311
01:17:24,640 --> 01:17:26,159
which is the guitar that i need to be

2312
01:17:26,159 --> 01:17:28,080
soloing and what was going on

2313
01:17:28,080 --> 01:17:31,360
i you know boom it happened

2314
01:17:31,360 --> 01:17:33,520
and i've got to figure out okay now i've

2315
01:17:33,520 --> 01:17:34,880
got an idea of what these

2316
01:17:34,880 --> 01:17:38,239
songs are like you know it's not like

2317
01:17:38,239 --> 01:17:40,000
i'd listen to the records for months and

2318
01:17:40,000 --> 01:17:41,360
months and months prior to going and go

2319
01:17:41,360 --> 01:17:42,880
yeah i know exactly what these solos are

2320
01:17:42,880 --> 01:17:44,320
oh he missed that solo

2321
01:17:44,320 --> 01:17:46,239
you know i had no idea what was going on

2322
01:17:46,239 --> 01:17:47,840
and that you know

2323
01:17:47,840 --> 01:17:49,280
does that mean i was exposed in a

2324
01:17:49,280 --> 01:17:50,480
different fashion yes it does does it

2325
01:17:50,480 --> 01:17:52,719
mean it was a better exposure

2326
01:17:52,719 --> 01:17:54,159
it's no way to know that and i think

2327
01:17:54,159 --> 01:17:56,080
that the the

2328
01:17:56,080 --> 01:17:58,960
exposure for i think the way people are

2329
01:17:58,960 --> 01:18:00,159
exposed to music

2330
01:18:00,159 --> 01:18:04,239
is very very much a personal thing yeah

2331
01:18:04,239 --> 01:18:06,800
you know i used to be that i would

2332
01:18:06,800 --> 01:18:07,840
listen to an album

2333
01:18:07,840 --> 01:18:10,880
non-stop for

2334
01:18:10,880 --> 01:18:13,120
beginning or i would listen to it

2335
01:18:13,120 --> 01:18:14,800
non-stop for it would be the cd in my

2336
01:18:14,800 --> 01:18:16,320
car for the next three weeks of

2337
01:18:16,320 --> 01:18:18,239
commuting or whatever it might be

2338
01:18:18,239 --> 01:18:20,560
and now it's like it's almost i've kind

2339
01:18:20,560 --> 01:18:21,520
of turned into that

2340
01:18:21,520 --> 01:18:24,440
that 16 or 15 year old who listens to a

2341
01:18:24,440 --> 01:18:27,440
song

2342
01:18:27,760 --> 01:18:29,280
yeah so well it's also it's funny

2343
01:18:29,280 --> 01:18:30,960
because i remember having conversations

2344
01:18:30,960 --> 01:18:32,480
about mixtapes and how mixed tapes are

2345
01:18:32,480 --> 01:18:33,679
such a lost art form because of the

2346
01:18:33,679 --> 01:18:34,320
mixtape

2347
01:18:34,320 --> 01:18:36,080
with a cd you just it's so easy to skip

2348
01:18:36,080 --> 01:18:37,520
but a mixtape it actually takes you you

2349
01:18:37,520 --> 01:18:38,880
know you it's effort yeah

2350
01:18:38,880 --> 01:18:40,239
if there's work to find where the next

2351
01:18:40,239 --> 01:18:41,679
song is and things like that so for

2352
01:18:41,679 --> 01:18:43,440
every mixtape you probably gave it

2353
01:18:43,440 --> 01:18:45,120
that first listen you probably actually

2354
01:18:45,120 --> 01:18:46,960
listen to every song supposed to like oh

2355
01:18:46,960 --> 01:18:48,320
yeah i don't really like this let's go

2356
01:18:48,320 --> 01:18:50,560
you know and uh which so yeah definitely

2357
01:18:50,560 --> 01:18:51,600
the lost art form

2358
01:18:51,600 --> 01:18:54,320
yeah yeah yeah pandora is a terrible

2359
01:18:54,320 --> 01:18:56,159
thing

2360
01:18:56,159 --> 01:18:59,920
skip skip that's good the um

2361
01:18:59,920 --> 01:19:01,120
let's talk about the music for a little

2362
01:19:01,120 --> 01:19:03,760
bit okay you as a

2363
01:19:03,760 --> 01:19:06,800
fan of the replacements i mean after you

2364
01:19:06,800 --> 01:19:07,600
left uh

2365
01:19:07,600 --> 01:19:09,600
after you got fired for sure did you

2366
01:19:09,600 --> 01:19:10,719
listen to

2367
01:19:10,719 --> 01:19:12,960
did you keep listening to the band yes

2368
01:19:12,960 --> 01:19:13,760
yes

2369
01:19:13,760 --> 01:19:17,600
yes yes yes um and i this is the problem

2370
01:19:17,600 --> 01:19:19,440
i have with every musician that i've run

2371
01:19:19,440 --> 01:19:20,000
into

2372
01:19:20,000 --> 01:19:24,159
is that i glom on to what is either

2373
01:19:24,159 --> 01:19:25,679
nearly their most recent or their most

2374
01:19:25,679 --> 01:19:27,280
recent component and go into the back

2375
01:19:27,280 --> 01:19:28,080
catalog

2376
01:19:28,080 --> 01:19:31,679
and find that grit and then

2377
01:19:31,679 --> 01:19:33,280
everything that comes out after that

2378
01:19:33,280 --> 01:19:35,120
doesn't quite meet

2379
01:19:35,120 --> 01:19:38,159
the need of the grit i like the more raw

2380
01:19:38,159 --> 01:19:40,000
i mean you know the way the way the

2381
01:19:40,000 --> 01:19:41,600
records are produced the way that albums

2382
01:19:41,600 --> 01:19:42,960
are recorded

2383
01:19:42,960 --> 01:19:47,199
um are very haphazard you know

2384
01:19:47,199 --> 01:19:48,719
double false endings or whatever that

2385
01:19:48,719 --> 01:19:51,840
kind of stuff is super attractive to me

2386
01:19:51,840 --> 01:19:55,040
and i can't get enough of that and then

2387
01:19:55,040 --> 01:19:56,239
when things are very

2388
01:19:56,239 --> 01:19:59,440
purified and glossy and trimmed and

2389
01:19:59,440 --> 01:20:02,000
clean and hit and they hit stuff i just

2390
01:20:02,000 --> 01:20:03,520
kind of go yeah that's a really pretty

2391
01:20:03,520 --> 01:20:04,000
song

2392
01:20:04,000 --> 01:20:07,040
but where's the real emotion yeah

2393
01:20:07,040 --> 01:20:10,239
yeah the uh so i so i i can can i make

2394
01:20:10,239 --> 01:20:11,440
the leap to say that

2395
01:20:11,440 --> 01:20:13,440
you're not the biggest fan of uh don't

2396
01:20:13,440 --> 01:20:15,199
tell us all i'm not

2397
01:20:15,199 --> 01:20:17,360
the biggest fan of don't tell a soul

2398
01:20:17,360 --> 01:20:18,239
yeah

2399
01:20:18,239 --> 01:20:23,280
yeah lost me lost me at please meet me

2400
01:20:24,320 --> 01:20:27,520
yeah and it's not bad it's just not

2401
01:20:27,520 --> 01:20:32,719
raw and i think that from a

2402
01:20:32,719 --> 01:20:35,280
we all grow up we all have expanding

2403
01:20:35,280 --> 01:20:37,600
tastes we all decide that you know i

2404
01:20:37,600 --> 01:20:39,280
can't be an angry teenager for the rest

2405
01:20:39,280 --> 01:20:39,840
of my life

2406
01:20:39,840 --> 01:20:41,520
i'm going to probably be a little bit

2407
01:20:41,520 --> 01:20:44,320
more serious but when it comes down to

2408
01:20:44,320 --> 01:20:47,840
my consumption of or let's say i do have

2409
01:20:47,840 --> 01:20:49,440
a hard day and i want to

2410
01:20:49,440 --> 01:20:52,560
kind of do a little head banging

2411
01:20:52,560 --> 01:20:54,320
what am i going to do yeah you know i'm

2412
01:20:54,320 --> 01:20:55,760
not going to turn on

2413
01:20:55,760 --> 01:20:57,920
lawrence welk right i got to go back to

2414
01:20:57,920 --> 01:20:59,120
the catalog and go okay

2415
01:20:59,120 --> 01:21:02,320
here's what i think are the top 25

2416
01:21:02,320 --> 01:21:03,760
hardest hitting songs i've got in my

2417
01:21:03,760 --> 01:21:04,880
collection and i'm going to listen to

2418
01:21:04,880 --> 01:21:06,159
those songs and i'm going to go yeah

2419
01:21:06,159 --> 01:21:06,800
that

2420
01:21:06,800 --> 01:21:09,040
you know it does two things for me it

2421
01:21:09,040 --> 01:21:10,719
rocks

2422
01:21:10,719 --> 01:21:14,080
you know in the jack black it rocks and

2423
01:21:14,080 --> 01:21:17,520
in the it has an emotional connection

2424
01:21:17,520 --> 01:21:20,400
yeah whether it's a love song or talking

2425
01:21:20,400 --> 01:21:22,320
about running a red light

2426
01:21:22,320 --> 01:21:26,639
okay so which i've done

2427
01:21:27,360 --> 01:21:29,360
what of the album what which of their

2428
01:21:29,360 --> 01:21:30,480
albums i mean if you're

2429
01:21:30,480 --> 01:21:32,159
if you were making your desert island

2430
01:21:32,159 --> 01:21:33,520
list which replacements album would you

2431
01:21:33,520 --> 01:21:33,840
put

2432
01:21:33,840 --> 01:21:35,440
would you put in all replacements album

2433
01:21:35,440 --> 01:21:37,440
which one would it be if i took one with

2434
01:21:37,440 --> 01:21:38,400
me yeah

2435
01:21:38,400 --> 01:21:41,440
uh i'd take stink

2436
01:21:41,440 --> 01:21:44,000
wow okay all right i totally sure if you

2437
01:21:44,000 --> 01:21:45,360
were making your desert island list

2438
01:21:45,360 --> 01:21:46,800
which replacements album would you put

2439
01:21:46,800 --> 01:21:48,159
would you put an old replacement album

2440
01:21:48,159 --> 01:21:50,159
on which one would it be if i took one

2441
01:21:50,159 --> 01:21:51,360
with me yeah

2442
01:21:51,360 --> 01:21:55,120
uh i'd take stink wow okay

2443
01:21:55,120 --> 01:21:58,400
all right i totally take stick

2444
01:21:58,400 --> 01:22:00,159
stinking is such a [ __ ] it's really

2445
01:22:00,159 --> 01:22:01,440
weird it's like why would you why does

2446
01:22:01,440 --> 01:22:03,040
that make you i think no i think

2447
01:22:03,040 --> 01:22:05,679
i'm i are you second guessing yourself

2448
01:22:05,679 --> 01:22:07,120
no no no okay good no i

2449
01:22:07,120 --> 01:22:10,159
i um stink is

2450
01:22:10,159 --> 01:22:13,199
so loved here in minneapolis and like

2451
01:22:13,199 --> 01:22:13,760
and and

2452
01:22:13,760 --> 01:22:15,120
we're interviewing people in new york

2453
01:22:15,120 --> 01:22:16,560
and it's it's it seems like the

2454
01:22:16,560 --> 01:22:18,639
different pockets have different

2455
01:22:18,639 --> 01:22:21,440
favorite albums it's really oh okay yeah

2456
01:22:21,440 --> 01:22:23,040
yeah it's it's i mean

2457
01:22:23,040 --> 01:22:24,880
yeah yeah well okay but i told you that

2458
01:22:24,880 --> 01:22:27,199
and my exposure to them was

2459
01:22:27,199 --> 01:22:31,840
you know it's it's let it be

2460
01:22:31,840 --> 01:22:34,159
and stink sorry ma and then you know

2461
01:22:34,159 --> 01:22:35,280
that's what i got

2462
01:22:35,280 --> 01:22:38,560
yeah and that has a pretty good even

2463
01:22:38,560 --> 01:22:41,840
distribution of ballads and rockers and

2464
01:22:41,840 --> 01:22:43,760
short and fast and whatever it's got in

2465
01:22:43,760 --> 01:22:46,159
it it's also pretty evenly the same

2466
01:22:46,159 --> 01:22:47,040
material

2467
01:22:47,040 --> 01:22:50,000
yeah all across the board but if it was

2468
01:22:50,000 --> 01:22:51,840
to pick let's pick one of those three

2469
01:22:51,840 --> 01:22:53,199
just those three it's got to be stink

2470
01:22:53,199 --> 01:22:54,320
because it's got

2471
01:22:54,320 --> 01:22:57,360
beautiful emotion and raw energy in it

2472
01:22:57,360 --> 01:22:58,719
what's your favorite place in the song

2473
01:22:58,719 --> 01:23:00,880
go

2474
01:23:00,880 --> 01:23:03,199
did you ever did they ever play

2475
01:23:03,199 --> 01:23:04,639
hootenanny where do you got to go up and

2476
01:23:04,639 --> 01:23:06,480
play one of the instruments

2477
01:23:06,480 --> 01:23:09,679
no i no i didn't um but they did do that

2478
01:23:09,679 --> 01:23:11,040
yeah period clay changing instruments

2479
01:23:11,040 --> 01:23:13,440
but i never i'm not a

2480
01:23:13,440 --> 01:23:14,560
like we've talked to other people might

2481
01:23:14,560 --> 01:23:16,880
be afraid to be on camera i am totally

2482
01:23:16,880 --> 01:23:19,280
not comfortable getting on stage the

2483
01:23:19,280 --> 01:23:20,800
mixing board i'm the guy the behind the

2484
01:23:20,800 --> 01:23:22,239
stage yeah i've done smoke and mirrors

2485
01:23:22,239 --> 01:23:23,360
my entire life

2486
01:23:23,360 --> 01:23:26,960
and i really excel in that and i enjoy

2487
01:23:26,960 --> 01:23:29,920
doing that position i like helping an

2488
01:23:29,920 --> 01:23:31,040
artist

2489
01:23:31,040 --> 01:23:33,199
fulfill their potential that's what i

2490
01:23:33,199 --> 01:23:34,960
like to do

2491
01:23:34,960 --> 01:23:38,960
i don't need to be on stage and

2492
01:23:38,960 --> 01:23:41,120
coincidentally after i got off the two

2493
01:23:41,120 --> 01:23:42,320
or three places i started working at the

2494
01:23:42,320 --> 01:23:44,080
guthrie theater as a smoking

2495
01:23:44,080 --> 01:23:45,920
nearest technician there a stage

2496
01:23:45,920 --> 01:23:49,120
technician and

2497
01:23:49,120 --> 01:23:51,760
during the very first show i was doing

2498
01:23:51,760 --> 01:23:53,280
there not the first performance of that

2499
01:23:53,280 --> 01:23:54,800
show but the very first show

2500
01:23:54,800 --> 01:23:57,760
several weeks into the performance um

2501
01:23:57,760 --> 01:23:58,480
one of the

2502
01:23:58,480 --> 01:24:01,600
park hands on stage burst and drained

2503
01:24:01,600 --> 01:24:02,080
glass

2504
01:24:02,080 --> 01:24:04,159
down upon the stage and this is during

2505
01:24:04,159 --> 01:24:05,440
the performance

2506
01:24:05,440 --> 01:24:07,840
and i was directed to go on stage with

2507
01:24:07,840 --> 01:24:09,280
the dustpan and

2508
01:24:09,280 --> 01:24:11,120
broom and sweep up the glass so that at

2509
01:24:11,120 --> 01:24:12,800
least they wouldn't slip and fall and

2510
01:24:12,800 --> 01:24:14,480
cut themselves on it and i did that no i

2511
01:24:14,480 --> 01:24:16,000
have no problem going on the stage when

2512
01:24:16,000 --> 01:24:16,639
there's

2513
01:24:16,639 --> 01:24:20,800
100 000 people in the audience at all

2514
01:24:20,800 --> 01:24:23,280
until somebody engages me in the focus i

2515
01:24:23,280 --> 01:24:24,800
can tell the focus is upon me and of

2516
01:24:24,800 --> 01:24:25,600
course

2517
01:24:25,600 --> 01:24:27,440
you know during the performance this the

2518
01:24:27,440 --> 01:24:28,800
gentleman elite actor

2519
01:24:28,800 --> 01:24:30,639
addresses me as a porter he's like thank

2520
01:24:30,639 --> 01:24:31,920
you porter for cleaning that up and i'm

2521
01:24:31,920 --> 01:24:33,520
just like

2522
01:24:33,520 --> 01:24:36,800
i'm frozen and i have to

2523
01:24:36,800 --> 01:24:40,880
literally not think about the audience

2524
01:24:40,880 --> 01:24:42,400
not think about the focus that's on me

2525
01:24:42,400 --> 01:24:43,520
and actually get up and get off the

2526
01:24:43,520 --> 01:24:45,199
stage

2527
01:24:45,199 --> 01:24:48,080
terrifying terrifying and i can

2528
01:24:48,080 --> 01:24:49,600
completely sympathize with musicians who

2529
01:24:49,600 --> 01:24:51,360
have stage fright it's like they are all

2530
01:24:51,360 --> 01:24:52,159
about

2531
01:24:52,159 --> 01:24:55,600
expressing their emotions creating art

2532
01:24:55,600 --> 01:24:59,440
creating connections with audience

2533
01:24:59,440 --> 01:25:00,560
as long as they don't have to see the

2534
01:25:00,560 --> 01:25:02,639
audience it's like

2535
01:25:02,639 --> 01:25:04,239
yeah it's like my least favorite thing

2536
01:25:04,239 --> 01:25:06,320
about book writing is doing book tours

2537
01:25:06,320 --> 01:25:07,679
and having to read

2538
01:25:07,679 --> 01:25:09,600
to people to read people read my own

2539
01:25:09,600 --> 01:25:11,679
words i am shaking

2540
01:25:11,679 --> 01:25:14,639
it i absolutely i so i i like being

2541
01:25:14,639 --> 01:25:15,920
behind the camera

2542
01:25:15,920 --> 01:25:17,600
okay yeah yeah i don't mind being in

2543
01:25:17,600 --> 01:25:19,280
front of the camera but it's the it's a

2544
01:25:19,280 --> 01:25:20,719
live audience that gets yeah

2545
01:25:20,719 --> 01:25:22,400
what's it is that reading that i mean i

2546
01:25:22,400 --> 01:25:24,080
don't mind when we do film festivals and

2547
01:25:24,080 --> 01:25:25,679
i go up and talk afterwards because it's

2548
01:25:25,679 --> 01:25:26,800
really just there asks me questions

2549
01:25:26,800 --> 01:25:28,320
about the movie it's technical but

2550
01:25:28,320 --> 01:25:30,080
actually reading to me is absolutely

2551
01:25:30,080 --> 01:25:31,040
terrifying

2552
01:25:31,040 --> 01:25:33,040
well i think everyone's got their own

2553
01:25:33,040 --> 01:25:34,080
you know

2554
01:25:34,080 --> 01:25:36,480
yeah yeah yeah yeah did were you were

2555
01:25:36,480 --> 01:25:37,120
you writing something

2556
01:25:37,120 --> 01:25:40,159
oh okay the

2557
01:25:40,159 --> 01:25:43,280
okay so you mentioned potential

2558
01:25:43,280 --> 01:25:46,159
did did the replacements in your opinion

2559
01:25:46,159 --> 01:25:48,800
live up to their potential

2560
01:25:48,800 --> 01:25:50,800
are you asking me from this perspective

2561
01:25:50,800 --> 01:25:52,159
or from

2562
01:25:52,159 --> 01:25:53,600
a different perspective and if i say

2563
01:25:53,600 --> 01:25:54,960
this perspective is like you know now

2564
01:25:54,960 --> 01:25:55,360
we're

2565
01:25:55,360 --> 01:25:59,040
looking back and yeah i say looking back

2566
01:25:59,040 --> 01:25:59,760
i mean okay

2567
01:25:59,760 --> 01:26:01,600
i mean do you think this was a band that

2568
01:26:01,600 --> 01:26:03,280
should have been

2569
01:26:03,280 --> 01:26:05,360
bigger or more commercially successful i

2570
01:26:05,360 --> 01:26:06,639
mean the next rolling stone

2571
01:26:06,639 --> 01:26:08,800
no no absolutely absolutely not because

2572
01:26:08,800 --> 01:26:10,960
it would be a completely different band

2573
01:26:10,960 --> 01:26:14,560
you know the people who are

2574
01:26:14,560 --> 01:26:17,440
raving fans of the replacements let's

2575
01:26:17,440 --> 01:26:18,639
just use them because we're talking

2576
01:26:18,639 --> 01:26:19,760
about them the people who are raving

2577
01:26:19,760 --> 01:26:20,880
fans replacements

2578
01:26:20,880 --> 01:26:23,679
really really either have they have an

2579
01:26:23,679 --> 01:26:25,600
emotional connection to the music

2580
01:26:25,600 --> 01:26:27,679
or the performance and this has been to

2581
01:26:27,679 --> 01:26:29,440
talk about performance primarily

2582
01:26:29,440 --> 01:26:31,520
um we're talking about the music also

2583
01:26:31,520 --> 01:26:33,280
but really you're talking about

2584
01:26:33,280 --> 01:26:36,159
what do they do when they were on stage

2585
01:26:36,159 --> 01:26:38,000
how did the audience react to them

2586
01:26:38,000 --> 01:26:41,280
et cetera et cetera you know if anybody

2587
01:26:41,280 --> 01:26:43,040
had a negative reaction about

2588
01:26:43,040 --> 01:26:45,440
them you know they were drowned out by

2589
01:26:45,440 --> 01:26:46,080
the people like

2590
01:26:46,080 --> 01:26:47,840
oh my god i saw the most amazing thing

2591
01:26:47,840 --> 01:26:51,520
last night and

2592
01:26:51,520 --> 01:26:54,080
you couldn't you couldn't gain

2593
01:26:54,080 --> 01:26:55,280
widespread

2594
01:26:55,280 --> 01:26:57,840
commercial success in my opinion it's

2595
01:26:57,840 --> 01:26:59,520
not possible for banzo without actually

2596
01:26:59,520 --> 01:27:01,120
kind of fulfilling an expectation of the

2597
01:27:01,120 --> 01:27:01,760
customer

2598
01:27:01,760 --> 01:27:04,239
and the customers for sake of argument

2599
01:27:04,239 --> 01:27:04,800
50

2600
01:27:04,800 --> 01:27:06,639
or more of the customers expect it to be

2601
01:27:06,639 --> 01:27:07,920
you're going to play this song exactly

2602
01:27:07,920 --> 01:27:09,920
like it sounds on the record

2603
01:27:09,920 --> 01:27:12,880
right okay so did they meet their

2604
01:27:12,880 --> 01:27:13,600
potential

2605
01:27:13,600 --> 01:27:16,320
i believe they did 100 did they miss

2606
01:27:16,320 --> 01:27:16,880
something

2607
01:27:16,880 --> 01:27:18,800
no they didn't miss anything because

2608
01:27:18,800 --> 01:27:20,239
what they did was they did what they

2609
01:27:20,239 --> 01:27:22,400
wanted to do

2610
01:27:22,400 --> 01:27:24,080
whether they knew what they were doing

2611
01:27:24,080 --> 01:27:26,719
or knew what they wanted to do

2612
01:27:26,719 --> 01:27:29,120
unknown did they have a direction

2613
01:27:29,120 --> 01:27:30,159
completely unknown

2614
01:27:30,159 --> 01:27:32,960
i'm guessing no they didn't really you

2615
01:27:32,960 --> 01:27:34,239
know when they started out it's like you

2616
01:27:34,239 --> 01:27:34,719
know

2617
01:27:34,719 --> 01:27:35,600
we don't think we're going to be the

2618
01:27:35,600 --> 01:27:37,520
next rolling stones i don't think they

2619
01:27:37,520 --> 01:27:39,360
thought that

2620
01:27:39,360 --> 01:27:41,600
maybe paul thought that he would be the

2621
01:27:41,600 --> 01:27:43,920
next

2622
01:27:43,920 --> 01:27:46,320
who knows but i think that was about

2623
01:27:46,320 --> 01:27:47,760
paul being the next

2624
01:27:47,760 --> 01:27:49,920
artist not him being in the next rock

2625
01:27:49,920 --> 01:27:51,040
and roll band that's the world's going

2626
01:27:51,040 --> 01:27:51,760
to recognize

2627
01:27:51,760 --> 01:27:56,239
right right right do you feel

2628
01:27:57,120 --> 01:27:59,600
in the 20 years since they've broken up

2629
01:27:59,600 --> 01:28:00,800
do you

2630
01:28:00,800 --> 01:28:02,639
do you hear their influence a lot in

2631
01:28:02,639 --> 01:28:05,120
other bands

2632
01:28:05,520 --> 01:28:07,120
i'm trying more musically not yeah

2633
01:28:07,120 --> 01:28:08,800
performance not the trying to mimic

2634
01:28:08,800 --> 01:28:09,199
their

2635
01:28:09,199 --> 01:28:13,120
stage antics i don't think as much as

2636
01:28:13,120 --> 01:28:14,880
not in this not in this not in the

2637
01:28:14,880 --> 01:28:16,719
current decade which was just about to

2638
01:28:16,719 --> 01:28:18,560
end here um

2639
01:28:18,560 --> 01:28:20,639
i think that the influence was

2640
01:28:20,639 --> 01:28:21,679
incredibly heavily

2641
01:28:21,679 --> 01:28:24,400
incredibly heavy 10 plus years ago and

2642
01:28:24,400 --> 01:28:25,920
has of course tapered off

2643
01:28:25,920 --> 01:28:29,360
um because of well

2644
01:28:29,360 --> 01:28:31,040
maybe this is a mistake in my own

2645
01:28:31,040 --> 01:28:33,280
observation because i'm so old now but

2646
01:28:33,280 --> 01:28:36,480
i really enjoy getting a body of work

2647
01:28:36,480 --> 01:28:39,920
from an artist not a single

2648
01:28:39,920 --> 01:28:42,639
piece of work from an artist you know i

2649
01:28:42,639 --> 01:28:44,719
if i hear a song that's attached to a

2650
01:28:44,719 --> 01:28:46,560
video soundtrack or a movie soundtrack

2651
01:28:46,560 --> 01:28:47,520
and i go oh that sounds really

2652
01:28:47,520 --> 01:28:48,480
interesting i'm going to go get the rest

2653
01:28:48,480 --> 01:28:50,000
of that you get that album

2654
01:28:50,000 --> 01:28:51,679
and it isn't available because they only

2655
01:28:51,679 --> 01:28:53,840
did that one song for that

2656
01:28:53,840 --> 01:28:56,400
i need to have more exposure to the

2657
01:28:56,400 --> 01:28:57,199
artist

2658
01:28:57,199 --> 01:28:59,840
so and i think that what happens is now

2659
01:28:59,840 --> 01:29:02,400
artists are influenced by

2660
01:29:02,400 --> 01:29:05,440
more maybe artists are influenced by

2661
01:29:05,440 --> 01:29:07,760
single performance or this particular

2662
01:29:07,760 --> 01:29:08,639
piece of

2663
01:29:08,639 --> 01:29:10,960
artwork or art music whatever it might

2664
01:29:10,960 --> 01:29:12,000
be instead of

2665
01:29:12,000 --> 01:29:15,760
the body of work it's easy now just to

2666
01:29:15,760 --> 01:29:17,440
get that one song off itunes instead of

2667
01:29:17,440 --> 01:29:19,120
downloading an album or getting an album

2668
01:29:19,120 --> 01:29:20,080
from a record store

2669
01:29:20,080 --> 01:29:21,760
and if you got the whole album you may

2670
01:29:21,760 --> 01:29:23,440
go yeah the hit's great but this one

2671
01:29:23,440 --> 01:29:24,239
other thing

2672
01:29:24,239 --> 01:29:26,159
is incredible right i mean answering

2673
01:29:26,159 --> 01:29:27,760
machine is a great

2674
01:29:27,760 --> 01:29:31,120
great great song but is it

2675
01:29:31,120 --> 01:29:33,199
really possible to be a commercial

2676
01:29:33,199 --> 01:29:35,040
successful hit

2677
01:29:35,040 --> 01:29:38,159
maybe but maybe not his voice probably i

2678
01:29:38,159 --> 01:29:39,520
mean i love his voice but i mean i don't

2679
01:29:39,520 --> 01:29:41,199
his voice is so uncommercial

2680
01:29:41,199 --> 01:29:45,520
i think yes yes i mean there's

2681
01:29:45,520 --> 01:29:47,280
and but but the question that you you're

2682
01:29:47,280 --> 01:29:48,880
asking me is did it influence other

2683
01:29:48,880 --> 01:29:50,400
bands and i think that

2684
01:29:50,400 --> 01:29:52,880
you know that song or other you know go

2685
01:29:52,880 --> 01:29:54,480
or johnny's gonna die or whatever these

2686
01:29:54,480 --> 01:29:55,840
other ballads are that are really

2687
01:29:55,840 --> 01:29:56,960
powerful

2688
01:29:56,960 --> 01:29:58,560
probably info influence bands

2689
01:29:58,560 --> 01:30:00,159
dramatically

2690
01:30:00,159 --> 01:30:01,520
and they may not have ever gotten that

2691
01:30:01,520 --> 01:30:03,520
exposure if it had been today yeah

2692
01:30:03,520 --> 01:30:05,199
yeah they never i would never would have

2693
01:30:05,199 --> 01:30:07,360
been influenced by that band if i

2694
01:30:07,360 --> 01:30:08,880
had to go buy the whole album because

2695
01:30:08,880 --> 01:30:11,440
i'm just gonna download the one hit song

2696
01:30:11,440 --> 01:30:13,440
and i don't know i wish i had the

2697
01:30:13,440 --> 01:30:14,639
demographics to tell you that

2698
01:30:14,639 --> 01:30:16,880
if somebody downloads this hit song that

2699
01:30:16,880 --> 01:30:18,080
means they download these five other

2700
01:30:18,080 --> 01:30:18,880
songs by that

2701
01:30:18,880 --> 01:30:20,400
same color that's an interesting that

2702
01:30:20,400 --> 01:30:21,600
would be an interesting point to look up

2703
01:30:21,600 --> 01:30:22,480
yeah because

2704
01:30:22,480 --> 01:30:24,239
that really tells us and there's two

2705
01:30:24,239 --> 01:30:25,920
things that the internet can give us

2706
01:30:25,920 --> 01:30:27,440
that it's not giving us today

2707
01:30:27,440 --> 01:30:30,719
and it's difficult to do one of them is

2708
01:30:30,719 --> 01:30:33,520
exactly that the owners of that

2709
01:30:33,520 --> 01:30:34,080
information

2710
01:30:34,080 --> 01:30:35,840
apple or whoever the music company is

2711
01:30:35,840 --> 01:30:37,760
isn't going to really tell you that

2712
01:30:37,760 --> 01:30:40,159
you know this is what's really being

2713
01:30:40,159 --> 01:30:41,760
bought the second thing that i would

2714
01:30:41,760 --> 01:30:42,880
like and this is not

2715
01:30:42,880 --> 01:30:44,639
really available but could be available

2716
01:30:44,639 --> 01:30:46,800
is okay you asked me

2717
01:30:46,800 --> 01:30:49,040
who do i do i think that replacements

2718
01:30:49,040 --> 01:30:50,480
influenced a bunch of other bands and i

2719
01:30:50,480 --> 01:30:52,000
think the answer is yes and i think it's

2720
01:30:52,000 --> 01:30:52,800
more

2721
01:30:52,800 --> 01:30:54,800
the last the first 10 years since they

2722
01:30:54,800 --> 01:30:57,840
broke up versus the most recent 10 years

2723
01:30:57,840 --> 01:31:00,159
what i would love to know is okay if

2724
01:31:00,159 --> 01:31:01,280
this band

2725
01:31:01,280 --> 01:31:03,840
if the replacement influenced this band

2726
01:31:03,840 --> 01:31:05,040
who did this band

2727
01:31:05,040 --> 01:31:07,360
also get influenced by and influence

2728
01:31:07,360 --> 01:31:08,080
right and

2729
01:31:08,080 --> 01:31:09,760
vice versa replacements replacements are

2730
01:31:09,760 --> 01:31:11,760
influenced by by buy

2731
01:31:11,760 --> 01:31:13,920
right right so that web of who

2732
01:31:13,920 --> 01:31:14,960
influenced who

2733
01:31:14,960 --> 01:31:17,520
would be really nice to know yeah yeah

2734
01:31:17,520 --> 01:31:18,239
because

2735
01:31:18,239 --> 01:31:20,480
you're an author you've written lots of

2736
01:31:20,480 --> 01:31:21,520
books

2737
01:31:21,520 --> 01:31:22,880
who were you and who were your

2738
01:31:22,880 --> 01:31:24,560
influences and who did you influence

2739
01:31:24,560 --> 01:31:26,159
because if you

2740
01:31:26,159 --> 01:31:28,080
write this and you're influenced by

2741
01:31:28,080 --> 01:31:29,440
raymond chandler i'm gonna go read

2742
01:31:29,440 --> 01:31:30,320
raymond chandler

2743
01:31:30,320 --> 01:31:32,560
right if you were influenced by agatha

2744
01:31:32,560 --> 01:31:34,239
christie i might go read agatha christie

2745
01:31:34,239 --> 01:31:35,520
because

2746
01:31:35,520 --> 01:31:36,960
there's so much material out there how

2747
01:31:36,960 --> 01:31:38,159
do i find what i'm looking for right

2748
01:31:38,159 --> 01:31:38,880
right and

2749
01:31:38,880 --> 01:31:40,639
that's way off topic for this particular

2750
01:31:40,639 --> 01:31:43,280
but it's how i find bands nowadays i

2751
01:31:43,280 --> 01:31:45,040
mean when i find a band that i like

2752
01:31:45,040 --> 01:31:46,880
it's usually from following the links at

2753
01:31:46,880 --> 01:31:49,040
the bottom of i love e-music

2754
01:31:49,040 --> 01:31:52,320
uh you know i actually refuse to to

2755
01:31:52,320 --> 01:31:54,159
ever like get music for free online i

2756
01:31:54,159 --> 01:31:55,440
will always pay for it

2757
01:31:55,440 --> 01:31:58,639
it's because we're old but i've also

2758
01:31:58,639 --> 01:31:59,760
seen my movies

2759
01:31:59,760 --> 01:32:02,800
ripped online of course and it's like

2760
01:32:02,800 --> 01:32:04,639
it's it pisses you off it's like you

2761
01:32:04,639 --> 01:32:06,000
know i'm you know it's like

2762
01:32:06,000 --> 01:32:08,960
it's like you know i i own an internet

2763
01:32:08,960 --> 01:32:10,960
access and hosting company right we

2764
01:32:10,960 --> 01:32:13,120
i mean we have very high speed access in

2765
01:32:13,120 --> 01:32:15,120
my office and

2766
01:32:15,120 --> 01:32:19,280
you know it's frustrating for me

2767
01:32:19,280 --> 01:32:21,120
who i've never written a song in my life

2768
01:32:21,120 --> 01:32:23,120
it's pressing me to see all my employees

2769
01:32:23,120 --> 01:32:24,800
going to sites and downloading free

2770
01:32:24,800 --> 01:32:26,639
music i'm like you guys

2771
01:32:26,639 --> 01:32:29,360
you can't do that it's not something

2772
01:32:29,360 --> 01:32:30,480
that you do

2773
01:32:30,480 --> 01:32:31,679
and the only reason it's something you

2774
01:32:31,679 --> 01:32:34,480
not do is because

2775
01:32:34,960 --> 01:32:36,480
it's like somebody going to your house

2776
01:32:36,480 --> 01:32:38,239
and reading your journal and not paying

2777
01:32:38,239 --> 01:32:39,040
you for it

2778
01:32:39,040 --> 01:32:41,040
it's my wife's has three brothers who

2779
01:32:41,040 --> 01:32:42,239
are state jobs

2780
01:32:42,239 --> 01:32:45,199
and one of them constantly his him and

2781
01:32:45,199 --> 01:32:47,199
his wife are always getting free cds of

2782
01:32:47,199 --> 01:32:47,840
people

2783
01:32:47,840 --> 01:32:49,840
who are downloading really way before

2784
01:32:49,840 --> 01:32:51,199
they come out on dvd free

2785
01:32:51,199 --> 01:32:53,679
dvds and i literally said it's like okay

2786
01:32:53,679 --> 01:32:54,400
but

2787
01:32:54,400 --> 01:32:57,040
so like if i came and smoked pot in your

2788
01:32:57,040 --> 01:32:58,719
house would that bug you

2789
01:32:58,719 --> 01:33:01,120
and you'd be like yeah i would i i would

2790
01:33:01,120 --> 01:33:02,239
never let you do that but it's like but

2791
01:33:02,239 --> 01:33:03,520
you're doing something illegal here and

2792
01:33:03,520 --> 01:33:04,320
that

2793
01:33:04,320 --> 01:33:08,400
no concept of like you're stealing

2794
01:33:08,400 --> 01:33:10,639
wow this conversation is getting way off

2795
01:33:10,639 --> 01:33:11,520
the topic and i would

2796
01:33:11,520 --> 01:33:13,760
love to have this conversation i agree i

2797
01:33:13,760 --> 01:33:14,960
agree 100

2798
01:33:14,960 --> 01:33:18,239
that the the

2799
01:33:18,239 --> 01:33:20,159
the transaction the nexus of the

2800
01:33:20,159 --> 01:33:22,239
transaction of when you

2801
01:33:22,239 --> 01:33:25,199
take a piece of data and it was created

2802
01:33:25,199 --> 01:33:26,080
by somebody

2803
01:33:26,080 --> 01:33:29,280
and you're taking it for free

2804
01:33:29,280 --> 01:33:31,600
that should be very very simple to do

2805
01:33:31,600 --> 01:33:32,719
and there should be a monetary

2806
01:33:32,719 --> 01:33:34,000
transaction that happens at the same

2807
01:33:34,000 --> 01:33:35,280
time

2808
01:33:35,280 --> 01:33:37,920
apple did a really great job at making

2809
01:33:37,920 --> 01:33:39,360
it available that anybody could sell

2810
01:33:39,360 --> 01:33:42,320
their music online and it's low cost

2811
01:33:42,320 --> 01:33:44,480
part of the problem now though is what i

2812
01:33:44,480 --> 01:33:46,000
just mentioned before is that

2813
01:33:46,000 --> 01:33:47,440
you're not getting the full exposure of

2814
01:33:47,440 --> 01:33:49,840
the artist if they're doing an

2815
01:33:49,840 --> 01:33:54,080
epic opus of the meeting the recording

2816
01:33:54,080 --> 01:33:57,120
the loving the hating the breaking

2817
01:33:57,120 --> 01:33:58,400
the leaving you're just having one and

2818
01:33:58,400 --> 01:34:01,040
you're just seeing the loving

2819
01:34:01,040 --> 01:34:02,719
right right well you know but i was

2820
01:34:02,719 --> 01:34:04,239
saying that what i love about one of the

2821
01:34:04,239 --> 01:34:05,679
things i do love about this and finding

2822
01:34:05,679 --> 01:34:06,480
music is where

2823
01:34:06,480 --> 01:34:08,000
you go to these sites and it's like okay

2824
01:34:08,000 --> 01:34:09,679
this band was influenced by this people

2825
01:34:09,679 --> 01:34:11,280
they influenced these people

2826
01:34:11,280 --> 01:34:12,800
and they sound like these people and i

2827
01:34:12,800 --> 01:34:14,480
always just start clicking links and

2828
01:34:14,480 --> 01:34:15,520
going you know it's sort of

2829
01:34:15,520 --> 01:34:17,920
to to build that sort of like you know

2830
01:34:17,920 --> 01:34:18,639
uh

2831
01:34:18,639 --> 01:34:20,719
uh connection between bands and that's

2832
01:34:20,719 --> 01:34:22,320
that's how i usually find most of

2833
01:34:22,320 --> 01:34:24,400
the music i listen to you know starting

2834
01:34:24,400 --> 01:34:25,520
with like well if you like the

2835
01:34:25,520 --> 01:34:26,159
replacements

2836
01:34:26,159 --> 01:34:27,840
try out this new band you know or

2837
01:34:27,840 --> 01:34:29,920
whoever and that i think is a great way

2838
01:34:29,920 --> 01:34:31,199
i think that's one of the things i think

2839
01:34:31,199 --> 01:34:32,639
the web does give us

2840
01:34:32,639 --> 01:34:34,480
right it gets a large exposure i mean

2841
01:34:34,480 --> 01:34:35,760
that's sort of like walking into a

2842
01:34:35,760 --> 01:34:37,120
record store and it's like and having

2843
01:34:37,120 --> 01:34:38,800
the great old guys standing there who's

2844
01:34:38,800 --> 01:34:39,280
not

2845
01:34:39,280 --> 01:34:41,199
with these stars don't exist anymore you

2846
01:34:41,199 --> 01:34:42,800
know but saying hey it's like you know

2847
01:34:42,800 --> 01:34:43,920
they know what your taste is because

2848
01:34:43,920 --> 01:34:45,199
you're in there every week

2849
01:34:45,199 --> 01:34:47,040
and hey does new albums come out listen

2850
01:34:47,040 --> 01:34:48,480
to this i

2851
01:34:48,480 --> 01:34:52,320
yeah i i i think that

2852
01:34:52,320 --> 01:34:54,960
as much as and i think much as is on

2853
01:34:54,960 --> 01:34:57,760
topic or not but i think as much as

2854
01:34:57,760 --> 01:35:00,159
the various online retailers are good at

2855
01:35:00,159 --> 01:35:01,520
kind of collecting well

2856
01:35:01,520 --> 01:35:02,960
since you bought this you might like

2857
01:35:02,960 --> 01:35:05,199
this you know the amazon thing

2858
01:35:05,199 --> 01:35:06,480
i think that's really great but i think

2859
01:35:06,480 --> 01:35:08,239
it'll never be as

2860
01:35:08,239 --> 01:35:11,040
good as my friend amy who works at road

2861
01:35:11,040 --> 01:35:11,600
runner

2862
01:35:11,600 --> 01:35:14,480
and she says i heard about this thing

2863
01:35:14,480 --> 01:35:15,440
coming out

2864
01:35:15,440 --> 01:35:17,040
you should get it because there are

2865
01:35:17,040 --> 01:35:19,600
literally too many releases well if your

2866
01:35:19,600 --> 01:35:20,400
if your wife read

2867
01:35:20,400 --> 01:35:21,600
the same writer's story there's a

2868
01:35:21,600 --> 01:35:22,880
character in there which everyone tells

2869
01:35:22,880 --> 01:35:23,760
me how much they love called the

2870
01:35:23,760 --> 01:35:24,400
professor

2871
01:35:24,400 --> 01:35:25,920
and he runs a music store and he turns

2872
01:35:25,920 --> 01:35:27,760
the daughter of god onto all this music

2873
01:35:27,760 --> 01:35:29,520
professor is a completely real person

2874
01:35:29,520 --> 01:35:31,440
in fact he's one of my my face friends

2875
01:35:31,440 --> 01:35:33,600
he ran he ran

2876
01:35:33,600 --> 01:35:35,440
he ran a record store in waterbury i

2877
01:35:35,440 --> 01:35:37,040
mean my god the wreck it was something

2878
01:35:37,040 --> 01:35:39,119
like 8 000 square feet of just

2879
01:35:39,119 --> 01:35:42,320
crates alton's pack so tight you'd be

2880
01:35:42,320 --> 01:35:43,920
like

2881
01:35:43,920 --> 01:35:45,920
just pulling it apart oh my god and it

2882
01:35:45,920 --> 01:35:48,000
was just and he was

2883
01:35:48,000 --> 01:35:50,880
he was that's it yeah he was a peter

2884
01:35:50,880 --> 01:35:52,239
jesperson of whatever can i

2885
01:35:52,239 --> 01:35:54,159
probably oh boy i mean really that was

2886
01:35:54,159 --> 01:35:55,280
the best record story

2887
01:35:55,280 --> 01:35:57,040
in his time in connecticut but that

2888
01:35:57,040 --> 01:36:00,239
character is 100 real that is him to a t

2889
01:36:00,239 --> 01:36:03,119
in that book okay um but yeah and that

2890
01:36:03,119 --> 01:36:04,320
knowledge

2891
01:36:04,320 --> 01:36:06,000
i mean that's why people have editors

2892
01:36:06,000 --> 01:36:07,440
that's why people

2893
01:36:07,440 --> 01:36:10,400
are that's why content really should be

2894
01:36:10,400 --> 01:36:11,600
edited is because they have this

2895
01:36:11,600 --> 01:36:12,480
knowledge

2896
01:36:12,480 --> 01:36:15,520
of a larger context and go oh you know

2897
01:36:15,520 --> 01:36:17,600
you really ought to just try this thing

2898
01:36:17,600 --> 01:36:19,360
out it's not what we're being told by

2899
01:36:19,360 --> 01:36:20,639
the publisher is the best thing to come

2900
01:36:20,639 --> 01:36:21,199
out

2901
01:36:21,199 --> 01:36:22,480
we're actually giving you our honest

2902
01:36:22,480 --> 01:36:24,239
opinion third person third person's

2903
01:36:24,239 --> 01:36:25,600
perspective i don't

2904
01:36:25,600 --> 01:36:27,040
you know i'm not going to make anything

2905
01:36:27,040 --> 01:36:28,719
by telling you this try this

2906
01:36:28,719 --> 01:36:30,239
yeah we need that we need that

2907
01:36:30,239 --> 01:36:32,400
dramatically um

2908
01:36:32,400 --> 01:36:36,840
back to replacements okay um a question

2909
01:36:36,840 --> 01:36:39,119
um stage fright

2910
01:36:39,119 --> 01:36:42,719
yeah did they did they have stage fright

2911
01:36:42,719 --> 01:36:46,080
i don't think so well or i mean

2912
01:36:46,080 --> 01:36:49,440
that did that ever

2913
01:36:49,440 --> 01:36:52,320
was that ever a reason for any of the

2914
01:36:52,320 --> 01:36:53,520
drinking or

2915
01:36:53,520 --> 01:36:55,840
it was just them just never it never

2916
01:36:55,840 --> 01:36:56,560
even occurred

2917
01:36:56,560 --> 01:36:59,840
well would um no

2918
01:36:59,840 --> 01:37:02,960
i'm totally not aware okay of them

2919
01:37:02,960 --> 01:37:05,040
having any kind of stage fright

2920
01:37:05,040 --> 01:37:08,400
i never saw it never was an issue

2921
01:37:08,400 --> 01:37:11,760
for me that i was aware of if it existed

2922
01:37:11,760 --> 01:37:15,840
um to answer the question on

2923
01:37:15,840 --> 01:37:20,080
drinking it you know this is there's

2924
01:37:20,080 --> 01:37:21,440
only so many records that you can buy at

2925
01:37:21,440 --> 01:37:22,880
a record store there's only so many

2926
01:37:22,880 --> 01:37:24,239
parks you can visit

2927
01:37:24,239 --> 01:37:26,080
there's only so much tv you can watch

2928
01:37:26,080 --> 01:37:28,159
there's only so much radio can listen to

2929
01:37:28,159 --> 01:37:30,719
you've heard this album how many times

2930
01:37:30,719 --> 01:37:32,719
i'm bored

2931
01:37:32,719 --> 01:37:34,480
and we're in a town where we don't know

2932
01:37:34,480 --> 01:37:36,880
anybody

2933
01:37:37,840 --> 01:37:40,400
my friend jack i'm gonna go talk to my

2934
01:37:40,400 --> 01:37:41,199
friend jack

2935
01:37:41,199 --> 01:37:42,480
you know i'm not saying that that's

2936
01:37:42,480 --> 01:37:45,520
right or wrong i'm just saying that

2937
01:37:45,520 --> 01:37:48,719
the ability to self-entertain today is

2938
01:37:48,719 --> 01:37:50,080
so much higher

2939
01:37:50,080 --> 01:37:52,719
than it would have been or was at that

2940
01:37:52,719 --> 01:37:53,119
time

2941
01:37:53,119 --> 01:37:55,360
yeah and you know maybe the thing to do

2942
01:37:55,360 --> 01:37:56,320
is sit down and

2943
01:37:56,320 --> 01:37:58,239
you know write a song a day or take a

2944
01:37:58,239 --> 01:37:59,840
picture a day or write a journal entry

2945
01:37:59,840 --> 01:38:01,199
date or whatever it might be you know

2946
01:38:01,199 --> 01:38:04,159
to be creative i'm with you there but a

2947
01:38:04,159 --> 01:38:05,199
lot of times

2948
01:38:05,199 --> 01:38:06,639
it's miserable outside and you know

2949
01:38:06,639 --> 01:38:08,639
you've only got a couple hours

2950
01:38:08,639 --> 01:38:11,600
before you got to kill some time somehow

2951
01:38:11,600 --> 01:38:13,760
was westerberg ever the kind of

2952
01:38:13,760 --> 01:38:15,760
i mean i feel sillier because i think i

2953
01:38:15,760 --> 01:38:17,199
know the answer to this one but was he

2954
01:38:17,199 --> 01:38:18,960
ever the kind of sensitive artist type

2955
01:38:18,960 --> 01:38:20,320
that was sitting in the back of the van

2956
01:38:20,320 --> 01:38:22,080
trying to write a song while the

2957
01:38:22,080 --> 01:38:23,520
you guys were going to a show and i

2958
01:38:23,520 --> 01:38:24,120
you're laughing

2959
01:38:24,120 --> 01:38:27,520
[Laughter]

2960
01:38:27,520 --> 01:38:31,360
no he was much more sensitive than that

2961
01:38:31,360 --> 01:38:35,440
okay um and i you know

2962
01:38:35,440 --> 01:38:39,520
the to answer the question more

2963
01:38:39,520 --> 01:38:41,119
obliquely

2964
01:38:41,119 --> 01:38:43,679
i think artists in general you know

2965
01:38:43,679 --> 01:38:45,119
sometimes don't realize they're artists

2966
01:38:45,119 --> 01:38:46,239
until

2967
01:38:46,239 --> 01:38:49,679
later and they kind of throw things

2968
01:38:49,679 --> 01:38:50,800
together because they're just

2969
01:38:50,800 --> 01:38:53,840
emulating it's like you know

2970
01:38:53,840 --> 01:38:55,199
the kids all want to be baseball and

2971
01:38:55,199 --> 01:38:56,480
football and basketball stars today

2972
01:38:56,480 --> 01:38:58,239
because that's what they see

2973
01:38:58,239 --> 01:38:59,520
it doesn't mean that they're really good

2974
01:38:59,520 --> 01:39:01,760
at it and we can tell you that you know

2975
01:39:01,760 --> 01:39:03,119
you've got one in three million chance

2976
01:39:03,119 --> 01:39:04,639
of becoming a baseball superstar and

2977
01:39:04,639 --> 01:39:05,920
being a pitcher is even

2978
01:39:05,920 --> 01:39:07,760
worse odds than that whatever the odds

2979
01:39:07,760 --> 01:39:09,040
might be

2980
01:39:09,040 --> 01:39:11,440
it's really easy to watch a tv and go oh

2981
01:39:11,440 --> 01:39:12,560
my god that guy's

2982
01:39:12,560 --> 01:39:13,760
strumming that guitar and having a great

2983
01:39:13,760 --> 01:39:15,520
time and looking the girls fawn over him

2984
01:39:15,520 --> 01:39:17,199
i'm gonna do that and it's easy to pick

2985
01:39:17,199 --> 01:39:17,840
a guitar

2986
01:39:17,840 --> 01:39:19,679
and hammer out three chords and put

2987
01:39:19,679 --> 01:39:21,440
together a song that comes from the

2988
01:39:21,440 --> 01:39:22,480
heart

2989
01:39:22,480 --> 01:39:23,760
but does that mean you're an artist and

2990
01:39:23,760 --> 01:39:25,679
you can actually you know to have

2991
01:39:25,679 --> 01:39:28,239
discipline to do it every day

2992
01:39:28,239 --> 01:39:29,760
as an artist yourself you know that

2993
01:39:29,760 --> 01:39:32,239
actually writing is difficult work

2994
01:39:32,239 --> 01:39:35,760
writing a song is difficult work so

2995
01:39:35,760 --> 01:39:37,280
how do you do difficult work in a

2996
01:39:37,280 --> 01:39:39,199
chaotic environment i have no idea

2997
01:39:39,199 --> 01:39:41,360
voucher

2998
01:39:41,360 --> 01:39:44,480
so no the answer is paul was never

2999
01:39:44,480 --> 01:39:46,000
sitting in the back of a bus

3000
01:39:46,000 --> 01:39:49,199
running no the next answering machine no

3001
01:39:49,199 --> 01:39:52,400
i mean no no

3002
01:39:52,400 --> 01:39:54,639
no and i should say under discipline

3003
01:39:54,639 --> 01:39:55,760
absolutely not

3004
01:39:55,760 --> 01:39:58,159
possibly he was doing stuff in his head

3005
01:39:58,159 --> 01:39:59,280
um you know

3006
01:39:59,280 --> 01:40:02,480
journaling definitely but not

3007
01:40:02,480 --> 01:40:05,679
sitting down working stuff out a silly

3008
01:40:05,679 --> 01:40:06,960
question just occurred to me because

3009
01:40:06,960 --> 01:40:08,480
every girl i know including my wife

3010
01:40:08,480 --> 01:40:10,080
who's in love with tommy stinson

3011
01:40:10,080 --> 01:40:13,440
uh we're at any of what i don't know um

3012
01:40:13,440 --> 01:40:14,719
it's the same question every guy asked

3013
01:40:14,719 --> 01:40:17,280
why i have so many kissing tommy stinson

3014
01:40:17,280 --> 01:40:17,840
stories

3015
01:40:17,840 --> 01:40:19,440
it's it's it's not you know i could i

3016
01:40:19,440 --> 01:40:20,960
could call this kissing tommy stinson

3017
01:40:20,960 --> 01:40:22,480
we'll just that could be the entire film

3018
01:40:22,480 --> 01:40:24,880
it won't be but it could be um that'd be

3019
01:40:24,880 --> 01:40:26,480
great yeah

3020
01:40:26,480 --> 01:40:27,920
that's that's that's gonna be an extra

3021
01:40:27,920 --> 01:40:30,239
on the on the dvd a full feature

3022
01:40:30,239 --> 01:40:31,920
easter egg we need an easter egg kissing

3023
01:40:31,920 --> 01:40:33,840
stomach did you see the easter egg on

3024
01:40:33,840 --> 01:40:35,040
the website

3025
01:40:35,040 --> 01:40:36,960
i didn't didn't look that deep oh click

3026
01:40:36,960 --> 01:40:38,639
the volume control oh i did i heard the

3027
01:40:38,639 --> 01:40:39,119
interview

3028
01:40:39,119 --> 01:40:42,480
okay i love that i love that yes i love

3029
01:40:42,480 --> 01:40:43,440
that

3030
01:40:43,440 --> 01:40:45,760
um i love the story but the story takes

3031
01:40:45,760 --> 01:40:46,880
place after they broke up

3032
01:40:46,880 --> 01:40:48,480
so i was like i'm probably gonna use

3033
01:40:48,480 --> 01:40:49,760
this in a movie so let me just put this

3034
01:40:49,760 --> 01:40:50,000
here

3035
01:40:50,000 --> 01:40:52,239
no it's good yeah that was it was a

3036
01:40:52,239 --> 01:40:53,600
great that's a great story

3037
01:40:53,600 --> 01:40:56,960
yeah that's oh great did uh any of the

3038
01:40:56,960 --> 01:40:58,159
other guys in the band

3039
01:40:58,159 --> 01:40:59,679
ever like like what the [ __ ] is it they

3040
01:40:59,679 --> 01:41:01,840
see in you or was he not the chick

3041
01:41:01,840 --> 01:41:03,040
magnet at that point

3042
01:41:03,040 --> 01:41:04,719
no he was a total chick magnet okay he

3043
01:41:04,719 --> 01:41:06,080
was a total

3044
01:41:06,080 --> 01:41:09,600
chick magnet and why not i mean

3045
01:41:09,600 --> 01:41:13,360
super skinny lanky big hair

3046
01:41:13,360 --> 01:41:15,360
you know who knows what's slung below

3047
01:41:15,360 --> 01:41:17,119
that guitar we can't see it you know

3048
01:41:17,119 --> 01:41:18,000
he's got pretty

3049
01:41:18,000 --> 01:41:21,679
eyes makeup i mean just just

3050
01:41:21,679 --> 01:41:23,920
a pretty boy was would like was his

3051
01:41:23,920 --> 01:41:24,800
brother or

3052
01:41:24,800 --> 01:41:26,560
ever like like ever just annoyed by it

3053
01:41:26,560 --> 01:41:28,000
or just like bust his ass but

3054
01:41:28,000 --> 01:41:31,760
um the relationship between tom

3055
01:41:31,760 --> 01:41:36,080
and bob uh tommy was a ladies man

3056
01:41:36,080 --> 01:41:39,440
and bob was interested in his

3057
01:41:39,440 --> 01:41:42,560
self-exploration and then and you know

3058
01:41:42,560 --> 01:41:44,960
that means

3059
01:41:44,960 --> 01:41:46,880
don't know if i'm going to take drugs or

3060
01:41:46,880 --> 01:41:48,000
i'm going to drink or what i'm going to

3061
01:41:48,000 --> 01:41:48,400
do

3062
01:41:48,400 --> 01:41:50,560
what i'm going to do i'm he wasn't

3063
01:41:50,560 --> 01:41:52,719
interested in that kind of pursuit

3064
01:41:52,719 --> 01:41:55,760
was there now and and paul was not

3065
01:41:55,760 --> 01:41:57,760
you know paul was focused on different

3066
01:41:57,760 --> 01:41:59,040
things not on

3067
01:41:59,040 --> 01:42:02,560
picking up ladies at all um

3068
01:42:02,560 --> 01:42:04,800
chris i don't know if there was a desire

3069
01:42:04,800 --> 01:42:06,719
there or not i'm not real sure

3070
01:42:06,719 --> 01:42:10,480
you know i mean it's not like you know i

3071
01:42:10,800 --> 01:42:14,000
basically my job was get gear in get

3072
01:42:14,000 --> 01:42:15,920
gear out get us to the next place more

3073
01:42:15,920 --> 01:42:17,600
of a professional level what was there

3074
01:42:17,600 --> 01:42:18,000
ever

3075
01:42:18,000 --> 01:42:20,400
i've heard stories of like you you go to

3076
01:42:20,400 --> 01:42:21,679
leave at the end of the gig and tommy's

3077
01:42:21,679 --> 01:42:24,080
always the one that's missing yep

3078
01:42:24,080 --> 01:42:26,560
anything any funny stories of like

3079
01:42:26,560 --> 01:42:27,520
where's tommy

3080
01:42:27,520 --> 01:42:30,560
well the first thing that we would do is

3081
01:42:30,560 --> 01:42:32,719
we would ask around to say has anybody

3082
01:42:32,719 --> 01:42:33,600
seen tommy

3083
01:42:33,600 --> 01:42:34,960
and then the next thing we would do is

3084
01:42:34,960 --> 01:42:36,480
like did anybody get an address away to

3085
01:42:36,480 --> 01:42:37,679
pick up tommy

3086
01:42:37,679 --> 01:42:41,040
you know talk to peter talk to sully

3087
01:42:41,040 --> 01:42:42,239
talk to whomever

3088
01:42:42,239 --> 01:42:43,840
talk to the guys to say does anybody

3089
01:42:43,840 --> 01:42:46,000
heard did he go

3090
01:42:46,000 --> 01:42:48,639
somewhere and a lot of times when we

3091
01:42:48,639 --> 01:42:50,159
were in familiar places

3092
01:42:50,159 --> 01:42:51,920
like chicago or madison we would just

3093
01:42:51,920 --> 01:42:55,520
like you know he'll call us tomorrow

3094
01:42:55,520 --> 01:42:58,719
so that's normal and that's

3095
01:42:58,719 --> 01:43:02,320
you know once again now that i've done

3096
01:43:02,320 --> 01:43:05,119
more of this stuff that would never be

3097
01:43:05,119 --> 01:43:06,480
allowed

3098
01:43:06,480 --> 01:43:08,239
in a professional setting but this was

3099
01:43:08,239 --> 01:43:09,679
not that it was this was

3100
01:43:09,679 --> 01:43:12,320
seen in the pants have fun we're gonna

3101
01:43:12,320 --> 01:43:12,960
enjoy it

3102
01:43:12,960 --> 01:43:15,679
when you finally got to a professional

3103
01:43:15,679 --> 01:43:17,520
being on the road with a professional

3104
01:43:17,520 --> 01:43:20,800
rock band okay was it

3105
01:43:20,800 --> 01:43:25,199
shell shocked to you um

3106
01:43:25,199 --> 01:43:28,719
no it wasn't shell shock because i had

3107
01:43:28,719 --> 01:43:30,960
been exposed early on to a more

3108
01:43:30,960 --> 01:43:32,719
professional level and this was a change

3109
01:43:32,719 --> 01:43:33,600
from that this was

3110
01:43:33,600 --> 01:43:36,560
not opera this is rock and roll um then

3111
01:43:36,560 --> 01:43:38,080
i went to theater and then

3112
01:43:38,080 --> 01:43:40,320
i did more independent rock and roll and

3113
01:43:40,320 --> 01:43:41,119
going back

3114
01:43:41,119 --> 01:43:43,760
into independent rock and roll was a

3115
01:43:43,760 --> 01:43:44,800
shell shock for me

3116
01:43:44,800 --> 01:43:46,320
actually that's what i mean that's what

3117
01:43:46,320 --> 01:43:47,920
going back to other bands and like see

3118
01:43:47,920 --> 01:43:48,560
well

3119
01:43:48,560 --> 01:43:50,480
it's it's we are actually doing sound

3120
01:43:50,480 --> 01:43:52,480
check so

3121
01:43:52,480 --> 01:43:56,000
yeah and so yeah the answer is yes i

3122
01:43:56,000 --> 01:43:56,480
mean

3123
01:43:56,480 --> 01:43:59,760
going and it's like you know

3124
01:43:59,760 --> 01:44:01,520
knowing that somebody's going to take

3125
01:44:01,520 --> 01:44:03,199
care of something and

3126
01:44:03,199 --> 01:44:05,119
it's going to be the same thing as it

3127
01:44:05,119 --> 01:44:07,119
was last night

3128
01:44:07,119 --> 01:44:08,320
and make sure you write down the right

3129
01:44:08,320 --> 01:44:10,000
name of the city on the monitor so that

3130
01:44:10,000 --> 01:44:11,040
when they say

3131
01:44:11,040 --> 01:44:14,320
thanks toledo we're actually in toledo

3132
01:44:14,320 --> 01:44:18,480
uh did that ever happen

3133
01:44:18,480 --> 01:44:21,280
um i you've got to ask about the math

3134
01:44:21,280 --> 01:44:22,880
and now did they ever get the city wrong

3135
01:44:22,880 --> 01:44:25,280
no no because that that wasn't part of

3136
01:44:25,280 --> 01:44:27,280
their their there wasn't a spiel

3137
01:44:27,280 --> 01:44:30,400
okay that wasn't part of the you know

3138
01:44:30,400 --> 01:44:31,920
the banter was

3139
01:44:31,920 --> 01:44:35,119
paul just kind of

3140
01:44:35,119 --> 01:44:37,119
what do you want to hear more of an

3141
01:44:37,119 --> 01:44:38,880
interaction and question and answer

3142
01:44:38,880 --> 01:44:40,239
period

3143
01:44:40,239 --> 01:44:42,800
and then play a song and then break it

3144
01:44:42,800 --> 01:44:43,360
and

3145
01:44:43,360 --> 01:44:45,199
maybe finish it maybe not finish it if

3146
01:44:45,199 --> 01:44:46,320
you finish it what do you want to hear

3147
01:44:46,320 --> 01:44:47,440
or they're going to play something else

3148
01:44:47,440 --> 01:44:48,800
because they that sparked an idea for

3149
01:44:48,800 --> 01:44:50,159
them to play

3150
01:44:50,159 --> 01:44:53,280
technology no no monologues no

3151
01:44:53,280 --> 01:44:56,880
no i mean i and i saw paul uh do a

3152
01:44:56,880 --> 01:44:59,199
performance at first avenue a few years

3153
01:44:59,199 --> 01:45:00,320
ago

3154
01:45:00,320 --> 01:45:01,760
uh where he talked about his songwriting

3155
01:45:01,760 --> 01:45:03,520
and he still doesn't have the

3156
01:45:03,520 --> 01:45:06,880
story teller thing in him

3157
01:45:06,880 --> 01:45:09,360
yeah no i mean he talked a little bit

3158
01:45:09,360 --> 01:45:10,880
about his influences and

3159
01:45:10,880 --> 01:45:13,040
it was interesting to hear you know

3160
01:45:13,040 --> 01:45:14,639
michael jackson was huge and

3161
01:45:14,639 --> 01:45:16,400
it's just like you know i'm kind of

3162
01:45:16,400 --> 01:45:17,679
surprised by some of these things

3163
01:45:17,679 --> 01:45:20,080
and that was kind of interesting to see

3164
01:45:20,080 --> 01:45:22,000
but he still didn't have that

3165
01:45:22,000 --> 01:45:26,320
you know performer performer thing down

3166
01:45:26,320 --> 01:45:28,080
did what was the next band you worked

3167
01:45:28,080 --> 01:45:29,280
the next rock band you worked on

3168
01:45:29,280 --> 01:45:30,960
afternoon um

3169
01:45:30,960 --> 01:45:34,159
let's see next major tour

3170
01:45:34,159 --> 01:45:36,080
would have been oh i thought i went to

3171
01:45:36,080 --> 01:45:37,679
work at the guthrie theater for several

3172
01:45:37,679 --> 01:45:39,360
years and

3173
01:45:39,360 --> 01:45:40,560
after leaving the guthrie theater then i

3174
01:45:40,560 --> 01:45:42,239
worked for a local sound company and i

3175
01:45:42,239 --> 01:45:43,840
did lots of one-offs i did bruce

3176
01:45:43,840 --> 01:45:45,600
springsteen and i did judy collins and i

3177
01:45:45,600 --> 01:45:46,000
did

3178
01:45:46,000 --> 01:45:48,960
the nylon i mean those words in show is

3179
01:45:48,960 --> 01:45:50,239
probably completely

3180
01:45:50,239 --> 01:45:51,760
right it's completely the name day and i

3181
01:45:51,760 --> 01:45:53,280
also worked for the local stagehands

3182
01:45:53,280 --> 01:45:54,080
union so i did

3183
01:45:54,080 --> 01:45:56,320
you know bowling stones and baby bowie

3184
01:45:56,320 --> 01:45:57,520
and all these big

3185
01:45:57,520 --> 01:46:00,880
show big arena type events and it's like

3186
01:46:00,880 --> 01:46:02,560
you know each person has their job and

3187
01:46:02,560 --> 01:46:03,920
they do them exactly in sequence and the

3188
01:46:03,920 --> 01:46:05,280
building blocks go together and all of a

3189
01:46:05,280 --> 01:46:05,760
sudden

3190
01:46:05,760 --> 01:46:07,679
four hours later there's this ginormous

3191
01:46:07,679 --> 01:46:09,960
thing that's built

3192
01:46:09,960 --> 01:46:13,119
completely different feeling and no

3193
01:46:13,119 --> 01:46:15,119
emotion at all because it's about the

3194
01:46:15,119 --> 01:46:16,800
money and that is all about who's going

3195
01:46:16,800 --> 01:46:18,639
to be in these seats and make sure that

3196
01:46:18,639 --> 01:46:19,760
the sight lines are correct and they're

3197
01:46:19,760 --> 01:46:20,960
going to able to hear it because they're

3198
01:46:20,960 --> 01:46:22,960
paying x dollars per seat

3199
01:46:22,960 --> 01:46:26,239
um that yeah i just recently i went and

3200
01:46:26,239 --> 01:46:26,639
saw

3201
01:46:26,639 --> 01:46:29,360
uh carol king and james taylor and you

3202
01:46:29,360 --> 01:46:29,760
know

3203
01:46:29,760 --> 01:46:32,159
a beautiful performance but you know

3204
01:46:32,159 --> 01:46:32,800
very well

3205
01:46:32,800 --> 01:46:34,159
that since they didn't use a set list

3206
01:46:34,159 --> 01:46:35,440
and they play exactly the same songs

3207
01:46:35,440 --> 01:46:36,639
every night

3208
01:46:36,639 --> 01:46:38,080
they just are doing they're just going

3209
01:46:38,080 --> 01:46:39,679
through the motions

3210
01:46:39,679 --> 01:46:41,920
i mentioned to a friend earlier about

3211
01:46:41,920 --> 01:46:43,119
you know he said

3212
01:46:43,119 --> 01:46:46,320
that he saw some band and you know he'll

3213
01:46:46,320 --> 01:46:46,800
remember that

3214
01:46:46,800 --> 01:46:48,239
that show forever and i said you can i

3215
01:46:48,239 --> 01:46:50,159
can guarantee you the performer will not

3216
01:46:50,159 --> 01:46:51,119
remember that show

3217
01:46:51,119 --> 01:46:52,400
because it's identical to every other

3218
01:46:52,400 --> 01:46:53,840
show in every other arena you know

3219
01:46:53,840 --> 01:46:55,040
either the seats are multi-colored or

3220
01:46:55,040 --> 01:46:56,000
they're all the same color

3221
01:46:56,000 --> 01:46:58,639
that's all it is unless something goes

3222
01:46:58,639 --> 01:47:00,159
wrong

3223
01:47:00,159 --> 01:47:02,400
and if something goes wrong the more

3224
01:47:02,400 --> 01:47:03,440
something goes wrong

3225
01:47:03,440 --> 01:47:04,960
the more they're going to remember it so

3226
01:47:04,960 --> 01:47:06,880
if you ever do happen to run into it

3227
01:47:06,880 --> 01:47:09,360
pray that the sound system goes out or

3228
01:47:09,360 --> 01:47:10,719
something falls from the ceiling or

3229
01:47:10,719 --> 01:47:12,560
something major happens because that

3230
01:47:12,560 --> 01:47:13,280
will be the show

3231
01:47:13,280 --> 01:47:15,440
they remember and you can say yeah i was

3232
01:47:15,440 --> 01:47:17,199
in the 48th row and i saw that trust

3233
01:47:17,199 --> 01:47:18,080
fall from the thing

3234
01:47:18,080 --> 01:47:20,080
blah blah blah they'll remember and you

3235
01:47:20,080 --> 01:47:22,000
can have an actual connection with the

3236
01:47:22,000 --> 01:47:25,280
artist um so

3237
01:47:25,280 --> 01:47:28,880
i kind of lost your question there but

3238
01:47:29,440 --> 01:47:32,880
my my big my big tour

3239
01:47:32,880 --> 01:47:34,560
after the replacements was the jets

3240
01:47:34,560 --> 01:47:36,400
they're another local band

3241
01:47:36,400 --> 01:47:39,840
pop super pop band and they

3242
01:47:39,840 --> 01:47:41,360
we did a pretty extensive tour of the

3243
01:47:41,360 --> 01:47:42,880
south part of the country

3244
01:47:42,880 --> 01:47:45,760
um did it's kind of an interesting thing

3245
01:47:45,760 --> 01:47:46,320
you can

3246
01:47:46,320 --> 01:47:49,360
follow the state fairs

3247
01:47:49,360 --> 01:47:51,920
across the country play all the state

3248
01:47:51,920 --> 01:47:53,600
fairs and then kind of follow the

3249
01:47:53,600 --> 01:47:56,000
carnivals back across the country and

3250
01:47:56,000 --> 01:47:57,600
there's kind of a circuit that gets

3251
01:47:57,600 --> 01:47:58,480
played

3252
01:47:58,480 --> 01:48:01,119
um and yeah i did so i did the jets i

3253
01:48:01,119 --> 01:48:01,840
toured

3254
01:48:01,840 --> 01:48:04,960
uh i did rod stewart for a little while

3255
01:48:04,960 --> 01:48:08,000
and you know i

3256
01:48:08,000 --> 01:48:10,800
really didn't dislike being on the road

3257
01:48:10,800 --> 01:48:12,159
but i've been doing

3258
01:48:12,159 --> 01:48:14,560
enough performance and doing performance

3259
01:48:14,560 --> 01:48:15,920
repeatedly

3260
01:48:15,920 --> 01:48:18,480
over years disconnects you with the rest

3261
01:48:18,480 --> 01:48:19,920
of society to some degree

3262
01:48:19,920 --> 01:48:21,199
because you kind of lose track of where

3263
01:48:21,199 --> 01:48:22,639
am i doing laundry tonight and where am

3264
01:48:22,639 --> 01:48:24,639
i taking a shower and what city am i in

3265
01:48:24,639 --> 01:48:28,639
um after a while i really prefer to be

3266
01:48:28,639 --> 01:48:30,000
off the road and i really want to do

3267
01:48:30,000 --> 01:48:30,880
more recording

3268
01:48:30,880 --> 01:48:32,159
so i got out of that and started doing

3269
01:48:32,159 --> 01:48:36,960
my recording and and 88 was the last

3270
01:48:36,960 --> 01:48:39,840
touring year i did

3271
01:48:40,080 --> 01:48:42,560
you mentioned uh michael jackson let's

3272
01:48:42,560 --> 01:48:43,760
bring up the other

3273
01:48:43,760 --> 01:48:46,960
huge person from minneapolis prince okay

3274
01:48:46,960 --> 01:48:49,760
was there ever i mean the two of us

3275
01:48:49,760 --> 01:48:51,600
completely separate worlds

3276
01:48:51,600 --> 01:48:55,119
yes but was there was i i'm assuming the

3277
01:48:55,119 --> 01:48:56,400
replacements knew who prince was

3278
01:48:56,400 --> 01:48:57,280
obviously

3279
01:48:57,280 --> 01:48:59,440
did they was were there were they fans

3280
01:48:59,440 --> 01:49:00,480
at all or

3281
01:49:00,480 --> 01:49:03,520
um that's an interesting question

3282
01:49:03,520 --> 01:49:07,040
would they go see prince at first avenue

3283
01:49:08,320 --> 01:49:12,080
i i

3284
01:49:12,080 --> 01:49:14,719
paul probably would but i don't know

3285
01:49:14,719 --> 01:49:16,159
that anybody else would i mean because

3286
01:49:16,159 --> 01:49:17,520
you know

3287
01:49:17,520 --> 01:49:20,000
kiss was the influence right it was okay

3288
01:49:20,000 --> 01:49:21,440
i mean it was just not

3289
01:49:21,440 --> 01:49:24,080
not there i mean at that particular time

3290
01:49:24,080 --> 01:49:25,920
well

3291
01:49:25,920 --> 01:49:27,520
prince went to minneapolis central high

3292
01:49:27,520 --> 01:49:29,679
school paul went to minneapolis central

3293
01:49:29,679 --> 01:49:30,960
high school

3294
01:49:30,960 --> 01:49:32,400
his sister mary and i went to

3295
01:49:32,400 --> 01:49:34,800
minneapolis central high school

3296
01:49:34,800 --> 01:49:36,400
so we're all in this small little

3297
01:49:36,400 --> 01:49:39,679
community but really there is

3298
01:49:39,679 --> 01:49:41,760
there is a there's two separate worlds

3299
01:49:41,760 --> 01:49:42,960
there there's

3300
01:49:42,960 --> 01:49:45,440
white boy blues rock bands and then

3301
01:49:45,440 --> 01:49:47,040
there's funk bands

3302
01:49:47,040 --> 01:49:50,000
and you know having the having flight

3303
01:49:50,000 --> 01:49:50,800
time

3304
01:49:50,800 --> 01:49:53,920
play the prom you know that that prom is

3305
01:49:53,920 --> 01:49:54,239
not

3306
01:49:54,239 --> 01:49:57,280
designed to have a white boy blues band

3307
01:49:57,280 --> 01:49:58,400
rock band play

3308
01:49:58,400 --> 01:49:59,840
yeah just not going to happen so there

3309
01:49:59,840 --> 01:50:02,080
was there was probably a desire

3310
01:50:02,080 --> 01:50:04,480
later in his career to see but you know

3311
01:50:04,480 --> 01:50:06,320
did i go see prince when i was

3312
01:50:06,320 --> 01:50:07,440
you know at first ab when i had the

3313
01:50:07,440 --> 01:50:10,159
chance no killing myself now

3314
01:50:10,159 --> 01:50:12,320
really wish i would have yeah so you

3315
01:50:12,320 --> 01:50:14,000
know in 84 he filled in purple rain and

3316
01:50:14,000 --> 01:50:15,199
man that was like

3317
01:50:15,199 --> 01:50:18,239
that's when we were doing but the

3318
01:50:18,239 --> 01:50:20,400
replacements played first avenue when

3319
01:50:20,400 --> 01:50:22,000
some of the setup for purple rain

3320
01:50:22,000 --> 01:50:23,760
supposedly was there correct i believe

3321
01:50:23,760 --> 01:50:24,000
that

3322
01:50:24,000 --> 01:50:26,960
is correct that and i remember someone

3323
01:50:26,960 --> 01:50:28,960
someone wrote to us and said yeah

3324
01:50:28,960 --> 01:50:30,800
you remember western commenting from the

3325
01:50:30,800 --> 01:50:33,520
stage how cool it was to have all of the

3326
01:50:33,520 --> 01:50:37,679
stuff in there yeah um the

3327
01:50:37,679 --> 01:50:40,000
i think that we mentioned this earlier

3328
01:50:40,000 --> 01:50:43,040
is that i think that there was a

3329
01:50:43,040 --> 01:50:45,840
respect there's a there's there's always

3330
01:50:45,840 --> 01:50:47,040
respect i mean there was

3331
01:50:47,040 --> 01:50:48,719
whatever animosity there was between who

3332
01:50:48,719 --> 01:50:50,159
could do and replacements or a lot of

3333
01:50:50,159 --> 01:50:51,280
past rules

3334
01:50:51,280 --> 01:50:52,560
soul assignment replacements whatever

3335
01:50:52,560 --> 01:50:54,080
those things were there's still a level

3336
01:50:54,080 --> 01:50:55,679
of respect between

3337
01:50:55,679 --> 01:50:58,400
bands and that would go you know genre

3338
01:50:58,400 --> 01:51:00,400
to genre there's no reason that

3339
01:51:00,400 --> 01:51:01,599
actually i think there'd been more

3340
01:51:01,599 --> 01:51:03,920
respect outside of genre

3341
01:51:03,920 --> 01:51:05,599
because knowing how hard it is to play

3342
01:51:05,599 --> 01:51:07,440
jazz or knowing how to play blues

3343
01:51:07,440 --> 01:51:09,040
and you know have been doing it for 50

3344
01:51:09,040 --> 01:51:11,119
years you know that

3345
01:51:11,119 --> 01:51:12,719
you know not that anybody's going to get

3346
01:51:12,719 --> 01:51:14,400
down their knees and bow down to johnny

3347
01:51:14,400 --> 01:51:16,560
hooker but you know that's a guy who

3348
01:51:16,560 --> 01:51:20,320
amazing career amazing career

3349
01:51:20,320 --> 01:51:23,199
so or hank williams senior whatever it

3350
01:51:23,199 --> 01:51:24,320
might be

3351
01:51:24,320 --> 01:51:27,440
was the um rivalry between

3352
01:51:27,440 --> 01:51:30,960
uh mr doing replacements real

3353
01:51:30,960 --> 01:51:33,360
i think it was between the fans for the

3354
01:51:33,360 --> 01:51:34,960
fans it wasn't between the bands

3355
01:51:34,960 --> 01:51:37,119
that i could see or fathom because

3356
01:51:37,119 --> 01:51:40,239
there's no reason for it

3357
01:51:43,679 --> 01:51:46,880
the the rumor

3358
01:51:46,880 --> 01:51:50,800
is so much more powerful than the truth

3359
01:51:51,040 --> 01:51:53,280
and the less you say the more the rumor

3360
01:51:53,280 --> 01:51:56,320
just gets going right

3361
01:51:56,800 --> 01:52:00,400
okay um is there anything else you would

3362
01:52:00,400 --> 01:52:02,239
want to add about this band

3363
01:52:02,239 --> 01:52:06,239
that i didn't somehow cover here i

3364
01:52:06,239 --> 01:52:07,599
yeah the only thing i would say is that

3365
01:52:07,599 --> 01:52:09,360
i have to thank them for teaching me

3366
01:52:09,360 --> 01:52:09,920
about the

3367
01:52:09,920 --> 01:52:14,239
darker side of of life

3368
01:52:14,840 --> 01:52:17,840
okay

3369
01:52:41,360 --> 01:52:43,440
you